Mastery Question
- billboneys
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Mastery Question
I just got my first Mastery M1 and installed it on my Thinskin Jazzmaster. I feel like it has taken a bit of the high end off the sound of the guitar. Now with a normal Jazzmaster pickup that woiuld be no big deal but I have a Novak P90 in the bridge that I just love. Now I'm feeling like I need to run an eq to brighten it up a bit. Really my question is has anyone else experienced this? The bridge is great and I'm not criticizing anything just wondering if my ears are hearing this correct or am I going crazy. Thanks for any input.
- andy_tchp
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Re: Mastery Question
Yes. It's why I no longer use them.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.
- ChrisDesign
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Re: Mastery Question
How close is you pickup to the strings?
"I own a '66 Jaguar. That's the guitar I polish, and baby - I refuse to let anyone touch it when I jump into the crowd." - Kurt Cobain
- billboneys
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Re: Mastery Question
String height hasn't changed since adding the Mastery. I hear it acoustically as well.
- Debaser
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Re: Mastery Question
I'm gonna vote for 'going crazy', though not because it's false or I don't believe you, but more along the lines of 'does not matter'. Don't get me wrong, I've tried all kinds of bridge materials and they do impact the acoustic sound, and eventually the plugged in sound. It's as you said though, turn up the treble on the amp. It's the brass I'm guessing. Part of the trade off for better tuning stability with trem use.
50,000 watts out of Mexico, this is the BorderRadio...
- andy_tchp
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Re: Mastery Question
Couldn't disagree more.Debaser wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:11 amI'm gonna vote for 'going crazy', though not because it's false or I don't believe you, but more along the lines of 'does not matter'. Don't get me wrong, I've tried all kinds of bridge materials and they do impact the acoustic sound, and eventually the plugged in sound. It's as you said though, turn up the treble on the amp. It's the brass I'm guessing. Part of the trade off for better tuning stability with trem use.
They change not only the overall 'tone', but also the string attack/transients/decay/sustain and thus the way the instrument responds to picking dynamics; 'turn up the treble' or trying to manipulate other EQ variables does nothing to address this.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.
- Debaser
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Re: Mastery Question
I actually agree with your first post, yes it changes tone/attack/decay. The response thing is real too, but I can’t say it’s all the bridge’s doing, more like the way one plays and through what amp/pedal. It’s all real enough, I hear it, though we probably would all disagree on any single interpretation.andy_tchp wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:46 pmCouldn't disagree more.Debaser wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:11 amI'm gonna vote for 'going crazy', though not because it's false or I don't believe you, but more along the lines of 'does not matter'. Don't get me wrong, I've tried all kinds of bridge materials and they do impact the acoustic sound, and eventually the plugged in sound. It's as you said though, turn up the treble on the amp. It's the brass I'm guessing. Part of the trade off for better tuning stability with trem use.
They change not only the overall 'tone', but also the string attack/transients/decay/sustain and thus the way the instrument responds to picking dynamics; 'turn up the treble' or trying to manipulate other EQ variables does nothing to address this.
I’ve chased the attack/decay thing through several types of guitars, and it never ends. That’s the ‘crazy’ part in my first comment—how far does one have to go to be happy with ‘tone’? Well that’s a personal question and corresponding answer. In the end, it’s always a trade off.
Look at this Embiematic Melita-repro bridge. I installed it on my ‘53 VS Gretsch Duo Jet. It has canvas phenolic saddles on the plain strings, aluminum saddles on the wound, with a high quality CNC’d aluminum bridge frame and anodized black aluminum feet. All that floating on thin maple ply over highly chambered mahogany. I can go on and on about how the attack/decay is like a hollowbody with extra zing and ‘air’ but at what point does this matter? It’s niche, the original Bigsby bridge already had that tone, and it’s mainly about how it looks and what I feel about all that. I drove myself ‘crazy’ for this pursuit, and that’s fun and all, but the end-game is about what I’m saying with my guitar, and the Mastery or any bridge won’t really make or break that.
[PSA: Dont buy an Embie, Mr. Mat is MIA and the website is up but no products are being made/delivered. Ask me how I know]
50,000 watts out of Mexico, this is the BorderRadio...
- andy_tchp
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Re: Mastery Question
I think we're probably more in agreement than not, but in the case of the Mastery vs a 'vintage' style bridge...the difference isn't subtle. It fundamentally changes the way the instrument plays and sounds - as the OP has found. Amps/pedals irrelevant.
I mean, from my perspective it's not some exercise in diving down a rabbit hole for incremental improvements on a 'tone quest' or trying to endlessly upgrade/tweak things so I can have the 'ultimate' guitar, as I have less than zero interest in that. It's immediately apparent as soon as you start playing the thing. And why I 'downgraded' to AVRI bridges
The 'crazy' part of the OP's question really only seemed like questioning themselves on whether the difference really was that significant. To which I again say, 'yes, yes it is'.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean, from my perspective it's not some exercise in diving down a rabbit hole for incremental improvements on a 'tone quest' or trying to endlessly upgrade/tweak things so I can have the 'ultimate' guitar, as I have less than zero interest in that. It's immediately apparent as soon as you start playing the thing. And why I 'downgraded' to AVRI bridges
The 'crazy' part of the OP's question really only seemed like questioning themselves on whether the difference really was that significant. To which I again say, 'yes, yes it is'.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.
- Debaser
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Re: Mastery Question
I can't speak much about tone questing without discussing pretty every nuance of a guitar. I'm ok with it, it's fun on it's own. However, finding 'perfection' isn't what I'm talking about. It's more or less similar to stating one's preference for the AV bridge (I like em too). It's only because of tone that you stick to the vintage bridge, right?andy_tchp wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:11 pmI think we're probably more in agreement than not, but in the case of the Mastery vs a 'vintage' style bridge...the difference isn't subtle. It fundamentally changes the way the instrument plays and sounds - as the OP has found. Amps/pedals irrelevant.
I mean, from my perspective it's not some exercise in diving down a rabbit hole for incremental improvements on a 'tone quest' or trying to endlessly upgrade/tweak things so I can have the 'ultimate' guitar, as I have less than zero interest in that. It's immediately apparent as soon as you start playing the thing. And why I 'downgraded' to AVRI bridges
The 'crazy' part of the OP's question really only seemed like questioning themselves on whether the difference really was that significant. To which I again say, 'yes, yes it is'.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When it comes to my Thin Skin, and pretty much every other JM/Jag I played with a Mastery, the bridge (set correctly) never fundamentally changed what it was. Pickup swaps change the guitar much more, as does the choice of amp and speakers. I can't quantify what the bridge alters but it does change things to a subtle degree. I can comfortably say it'a no more than maybe 2 or 3 percent (if even that) of whatever my guitar happens to sound like, all else being equal. That's just my experience though.
I hear you on the questioning part. Am I hearing this "right"? I can't really answer that for anyone, only to say that yep, I have a Thin Skin JM, I have used both the stock bridge and the Mastery, back to back even. No, haven't used the Novak P90, but plenty of other guitars with normal P90s. The bridge tone/response/attack/decay is subtle to me, not profound or fundamentally different from a plucked steel string on a plank of wood.
50,000 watts out of Mexico, this is the BorderRadio...
- DeathJag
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Re: Mastery Question
The simple fact that they do not support their customers is a reason enough to not use a mastery. The trem I’ve got rattles because they will not sell me a new $30 tremolo arm. I was so excited to invest in an American company and bought three bridges and now I wish I hadn’t.
- billboneys
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Re: Mastery Question
So here's the kicker. I have a Supro Saturn amp that I like but I have always felt that it needed a little more treble on tap. I run treble knob all the way up and it feels like that should be the 12oclock position on it. Therefore a little loss in treble for me is a big deal. Then add on the P90 and it compounds. And full disclosure I did not follow the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule. I have none of the traditional issues with the stock bridge. I don't mind the overtones, tuning is stable and no string jumping. It was really more of looking at everyone that uses one and thinking that there must be something to it when these guys that make their living using Jazzmasters and Jaguars are using them and saying great things. At the end of the day I replaced the stock bridge and got back what I was missing with the Mastery. So for me it's not what I was looking for. I guess I just needed to know that or I would always be wondering. It's a brilliant design and does what it says it does so I wouldn't deter anyone from exploring it if you are having issues.Debaser wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:11 amI'm gonna vote for 'going crazy', though not because it's false or I don't believe you, but more along the lines of 'does not matter'. Don't get me wrong, I've tried all kinds of bridge materials and they do impact the acoustic sound, and eventually the plugged in sound. It's as you said though, turn up the treble on the amp. It's the brass I'm guessing. Part of the trade off for better tuning stability with trem use.
Last edited by billboneys on Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
- billboneys
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Re: Mastery Question
For me I would say this is an accurate description of what I experienced. I wasn't able to verbalize it as well but definitely the string attack. It's good to know that someone else has had a similar experience. This is no Mastery bash thread although I know it's inevitable that someone may take offense. I'll just move this on to someone else that will put it to good use.
- Debaser
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Re: Mastery Question
Glad you have your guitar where you want it. It's good that you can recoup your losses, or most of them. I certainly did, I sold my other Mastery bridge, only kept the first since it's actually a nice one, I guess, from around 2013. I use the AV and my own DIY Tele bridges now, it's all good.billboneys wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:35 amSo here's the kicker. I have a Supro Saturn amp that I like but I have always felt that it needed a little more treble on tap. I run treble knob all the way up and it feels like that should be the 12oclock position on it. Therefore a little loss in treble for me is a big deal. Then add on the P90 and it compounds. And full disclosure I did not follow the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule. I have none of the traditional issues with the stock bridge. I don't mind the overtones, tuning is stable and no string jumping. It was really more of looking at everyone that uses one and thinking that there must be something to it when these guys that make their living using Jazzmasters and Jaguars are using them and saying great things. At the end of the day I replaced the stock bridge and got back what I was missing with the Mastery. So for me it's not what I was looking for. I guess I just needed to know that or I would always be wondering. It's a brilliant design and does what it says it does so I wouldn't deter anyone from exploring it if you are having issues.Debaser wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:11 amI'm gonna vote for 'going crazy', though not because it's false or I don't believe you, but more along the lines of 'does not matter'. Don't get me wrong, I've tried all kinds of bridge materials and they do impact the acoustic sound, and eventually the plugged in sound. It's as you said though, turn up the treble on the amp. It's the brass I'm guessing. Part of the trade off for better tuning stability with trem use.
50,000 watts out of Mexico, this is the BorderRadio...