Neck relief keeps changing

[Arc]

Hi guys/gals, my little squier vm jag is going thru puberty. I used to think that it had a good neck with a decent fretwork, but lately I lowered di action a little bit and I noticed extremely annoying buzzes in certain spots, namely:
-high e: 16th fret
-b: 10th and 13th fret
-g: 12th fret
-d: nothing
-a: nothing
-low e: 11th fret.

I tried to increase the action individually for each string and the buzz disappears but I’m left with high and uneven action. The right compromise happens around 2 mm (5/64in) treble side and 2.6 (7/64in) bass side. Too much.

The other day I brought it to rehearsal and the action was way higher than at home. I checked neck relief and it was 1/64 (!!!). A quarter turn of the truss rod fixed it, but today the problem is back, too a lesser extent though.

Things that happened: a couple of hours at 35 degrees Celsius while going to rehearsals, temperature shift in the last 15 days from 19C to 25C (at home where I store it).

My gut says something wrong and maybe some frets are moving/being push out. I don’t know, help me out on what I can do.

Thanks

[schoolie]

Excessive relief can cause fret buzz and temp/humidity changes can make necks squirrely. I would measure and monitor relief from the sixth fret to the eighth fret. Aside from the relief, do you have a fret rocker to check for high frets? If they are popping up, they can be reseated and glued.

[ChrisDesign]

What do you use to measure the relief and action?

[Arc]

For the action I use several brand new plectrums a la feeler gauge. Normally I set it with a 1.4 mm pick for the high e and a 2 mm for the low e. For the relief this time I used strings leftovers, I usually aim for 0.010 in.

I don’t have a fret rocker, but I built one out of an old ruler, I do have some high frets indeed.

I probably should hit a tech and have the fret leveled, but I’m concerned about the relief because it wanders a little too much for my taste. I cannot keep tightening the truss rod or I will end up with no threads left...

[schoolie]

YOu can always add a trussrod washer or two, if you run out of threads. My 62 AVRI Jag has the same problem, but I was able to get it straight with washers.

[adamrobertt]

A few things:

* It sounds like the truss rod is behaving normally. It is normal for the neck to move with the seasons, and the weather (at least where I am) has been extreme lately.

* 1/64 of an inch is only 15 thousandths - that is not a really insane amount of relief. I'd say most of my guitars and basses are somewhere between 10 and 20 thousandths. Totally normal and OK. In fact, having relief of less than 10 thou I'd say is not desirable in most cases unless your fretwork and nut are both absolutely FLAWLESS. Also it isn't necessary unless you like unreasonably low action.

* Your Squier almost certainly does not have perfect fretwork. It is quite normal for new guitars (even kinda pricey ones) to need a bit of fretwork when new. You probably need to implement some fallaway - basically you can do this by sanding down the last 5 or so frets with a block until the buzzing stops and then recrown and polish the frets. The places your neck is buzzing suggest to me that this is the case.

Edit: Also I cannot stress enough - never store your guitars in your car. Your pedalboard? Fine. Amp? Probably fine. But don't leave your guitar in there. Bring it into the restaurant with you, especially when it's very hot or cold outside.

[Arc]

Thanks for the replies guys. I probably missed the conversion with the 1/64, it was around 1 mm.

I like the idea of leveling the fretboard the diy way, but I don’t have any dedicated tool. Do you have any trick with more common tools like normal metal files? What can I use as straight block to sand the frets down evenly?

EDIT: the guitar was in the car with me driving the whole two hours round trip. Despite the AC it got pretty hot

[HarlowTheFish]

Thanks for the replies guys. I probably missed the conversion with the 1/64, it was around 1 mm.

I like the idea of leveling the fretboard the diy way, but I don’t have any dedicated tool. Do you have any trick with more common tools like normal metal files? What can I use as straight block to sand the frets down evenly?

Ideally you want a (heavy) leveling beam that's as long(ish) as your fretboard, so you get even pressure (from the weight) across all the frets (from the length) so you're taking down all the high frets and eventually get something that's straight all over; and a radiused sanding block to get it back to spec instead of just being flat.

If you don't have the tools and especially if you haven't done it before, it's probably better to take it to a good shop and get it done professionally -- if it was some cheap guitar that you're fine with stuff going wrong on, then it sucks but whatever, but it sounds like this Jag is a pretty regular player for you. It's honestly not gonna cost much more, because you're already some $70 out of pocket with a Stewmac leveling beam and sanding block alone, plus sandpaper, plus fret crowning tools.

[Arc]

You were pretty convincing about bringing it to a tech, sir! I’m going to follow your advice.
I would love to do it, but I indeed never did it and I’m not keen on spending the money these tools command for just a one-time job..

[HarlowTheFish]

You were pretty convincing about bringing it to a tech, sir! I’m going to follow your advice.
I would love to do it, but I indeed never did it and I’m not keen on spending the money these tools command for just a one-time job..

Honestly, if you wanna get into this stuff, find a dirt cheap Squier for like $150 or something and use it as a fretwork practice guitar -- leveling, crowning, fret ends, refrets, the whole nine yards -- because worst comes to worst, you're $150 down on a guitar you weren't really gonna play anyway, and best case scenario you end up with a beater that plays real nice to kick around if you don't wanna risk your main players.

[adamrobertt]

Thanks for the replies guys. I probably missed the conversion with the 1/64, it was around 1 mm.

I like the idea of leveling the fretboard the diy way, but I don’t have any dedicated tool. Do you have any trick with more common tools like normal metal files? What can I use as straight block to sand the frets down evenly?

Ideally you want a (heavy) leveling beam that's as long(ish) as your fretboard, so you get even pressure (from the weight) across all the frets (from the length) so you're taking down all the high frets and eventually get something that's straight all over; and a radiused sanding block to get it back to spec instead of just being flat.

If you don't have the tools and especially if you haven't done it before, it's probably better to take it to a good shop and get it done professionally -- if it was some cheap guitar that you're fine with stuff going wrong on, then it sucks but whatever, but it sounds like this Jag is a pretty regular player for you. It's honestly not gonna cost much more, because you're already some $70 out of pocket with a Stewmac leveling beam and sanding block alone, plus sandpaper, plus fret crowning tools.

You don't need to level the entire fretboard every time you have a high fret or buzzing - you can use a 4 or 5 inch block to spot level trouble spots. This is especially ideal on a new instrument with new frets that have already been leveled during the building process but buzzing still remains, or a relatively new instrument with lots of life left in the frets.

[Horsefeather]

A stone countertop offcut makes a perfect sanding beam. Get some self adhesive sandpaper on a roll and you're totally synched, bro.

[Arc]

Ok then, I did something that will probably make you cringe, but it solved the problem. With the fret rocker I identified a couple of high spots and I sanded them down with 240 grit sandpaper followed by 400, 800 and 1200. I did it with the guitar on my lap, strung. I protected the fretboard with masking tape and I sanded right where the string contacts the high fret, continuously checking for buzz. It was not a clean/top notch job, I tried to crown these spots the better I could. Checked intonation and it is fine. I had two prominent high spots on the 13th and 18th frets, now they’re ok.
I figured I had this jag since 7 years and it is already a cheap guitar. I was ready to bring it to a tech but I thought it was worth a try.

[adamrobertt]

Ok then, I did something that will probably make you cringe, but it solved the problem. With the fret rocker I identified a couple of high spots and I sanded them down with 240 grit sandpaper followed by 400, 800 and 1200. I did it with the guitar on my lap, strung. I protected the fretboard with masking tape and I sanded right where the string contacts the high fret, continuously checking for buzz. It was not a clean/top notch job, I tried to crown these spots the better I could. Checked intonation and it is fine. I had two prominent high spots on the 13th and 18th frets, now they’re ok.
I figured I had this jag since 7 years and it is already a cheap guitar. I was ready to bring it to a tech but I thought it was worth a try.

That’s basically exactly what I’d do in your case. A good crowning file is a must though so you can bring back the original fret profile. Flat frets are only going to cause more problems down the road.

[Play_at_Guitar]

I came home this past weekend from a 5 hour trip in very hot weather (Arizona!) with my guitar in it's hard shell case in the pickup bed that has a camper shell and left it there overnight. It was out of tune to the low side, but it tuned right up and plays great. I also checked the neck with a branded neck ruler and frets with a rocker during a string change and it was straight with no high frets. Last year, I did have the neck professionally worked on and I can get the strings down to 1.0 mm on 1st string and 1.5 mm on 6th string with very little buzzing. My luthier said that is the low end and the high end he recommends 1.5mm and 2.00 mm when needed. It had 7 frets that needed work at that time. I have done this with all my guitars including Fender Strats and Teles. This particular guitar is a HAZE Jazzmaster.

I normally do not leave my guitars out in the heat, but this time I did.