Volume knob fuzz clean-up problem

[marqueemoon]

I have a 4 knob White Atom coming today. I will try with a conventionally wired JM and report back.

Trying the White Atom now. I think this is less about the guitar and a lot more about this particular fuzz.

I dispute that it “cleans up” better with a Tele. It doesn’t really clean up in the traditional sense. It’s designed to be happy after a buffer. With a Tele it gets less saturated and therefore more sparkly when you roll the volume back. In my very limited experience thus far it also sounds flat out better with a Tele than a JM. Way more dangerous sounding with a Tele.

This is a very cool pedal, but I didn’t get it for the cleanup and I’m not especially surprised or disappointed that it doesn’t do the Fuzz Face cleanup thing. What I DO really like so far is how it reads more as distortion and can sort out even complex chords, but switch to single notes and it’s honk city. That’s pretty awesome. Has not gotten the ultimate test of being used with the band yet though.

[jorri]

Audio taper pot with a treble bleed = the future!

Fender really should install treble bleeds on all their non-reissue guitars.

not that i'm particularly interested in modern production guitars but, a treble bypass cap as stock on, say, a telecaster, would put me off more

If a choice then linear, no treble bleed better for swelling.
Even an exagerrated log for cleanup as saturation is non-linear afaik anyway, with treble bleed.
And perceived linear volume probably a tually lies between log and line but thats not the aim with rolling back into distortion- the distortion will be squashing and you want the most saturation variace.

[MechaBulletBill]

yeah the spots i roll between differ on all my guitars, between every dirt pedal, etc. just have to feel it, which is why i don't miss the numbers on my tele knobs to be honest!

pedantry time! the standard tone control is a treble "bleed", a capacitor and/or resistor across the volume pot is a treble "pass"

[CIJ]

I have a 4 knob White Atom coming today. I will try with a conventionally wired JM and report back.

Trying the White Atom now. I think this is less about the guitar and a lot more about this particular fuzz.

I dispute that it “cleans up” better with a Tele. It doesn’t really clean up in the traditional sense. It’s designed to be happy after a buffer. With a Tele it gets less saturated and therefore more sparkly when you roll the volume back. In my very limited experience thus far it also sounds flat out better with a Tele than a JM. Way more dangerous sounding with a Tele.

This is a very cool pedal, but I didn’t get it for the cleanup and I’m not especially surprised or disappointed that it doesn’t do the Fuzz Face cleanup thing. What I DO really like so far is how it reads more as distortion and can sort out even complex chords, but switch to single notes and it’s honk city. That’s pretty awesome. Has not gotten the ultimate test of being used with the band yet though.

Glad you're enjoying the White Atom, I find if very versatile. BUT, to my ears, it 100% cleans up with my Tele when I roll back the volume. Perhaps there are other variables at play here that are producing a different outcome for you? But also isn't "it gets less saturated and therefore more sparkly when you roll the volume back" exactly what happens with the famed Fuzz Face "clean-up"? I'm not sure I understand the difference. (I've never owned a Fuzz Face but I've seen That Pedal Show demonstrate this phenomenon so I THINK I understand it. But perhaps it's something you have to experience in a room for yourself.)

In response to other posters, the Rothstein vintage prewired assembly does indeed come with a treble retention circuit by default. But my Tele also has this (the wiring is not stock) so I'm not sure if this is what accounts for the difference.

I can solder a bit - I'm not very experienced and not the neatest, perhaps, but I can get the job done. Maybe I'll just try take the capacitor out and see what difference it makes before I go changing pots.

[CIJ]

yeah the spots i roll between differ on all my guitars, between every dirt pedal, etc. just have to feel it, which is why i don't miss the numbers on my tele knobs to be honest!

pedantry time! the standard tone control is a treble "bleed", a capacitor and/or resistor across the volume pot is a treble "pass"

Ha, that makes more sense, quite honestly. I always thought "treble bleed" seemed to imply the opposite of what this is supposed to do - ie it seems to describe the problem you're trying to fix rather than the solution itself. I believe Andy Rothstein describes it as a "treble retention circuit", which again makes more sense (to me).

[marqueemoon]

But also isn't "it gets less saturated and therefore more sparkly when you roll the volume back" exactly what happens with the famed Fuzz Face "clean-up"? I'm not sure I understand the difference. (I've never owned a Fuzz Face but I've seen That Pedal Show demonstrate this phenomenon so I THINK I understand it. But perhaps it's something you have to experience in a room for yourself.)

I’m probably not describing it well. To me the classic FF cleanup is there’s some extra sparkle and glassiness that isn’t there in the bypassed signal and the character of the breakup changes. It’s more apparent with a darker sound like a neck humbucker.

None of the demos of the White Atom I’ve checked out have showed the cleanup properties. While it’s not a terrible sound with the volume rolled it’s also not classic cleanup to me and therefore not a selling point for the pedal.

I guess my point is why not enjoy the pedal for what it is using the guitar it sounds best with? Isn’t that the reason we hoard gear?

[CIJ]

I’m probably not describing it well. To me the classic FF cleanup is there’s some extra sparkle and glassiness that isn’t there in the bypassed signal and the character of the breakup changes. It’s more apparent with a darker sound like a neck humbucker.

None of the demos of the White Atom I’ve checked out have showed the cleanup properties. While it’s not a terrible sound with the volume rolled it’s also not classic cleanup to me and therefore not a selling point for the pedal.

I guess my point is why not enjoy the pedal for what it is using the guitar it sounds best with? Isn’t that the reason we hoard gear?

Ah, you mean the fabled "Hendrix clean tone"? Well, for sure I wouldn't mind me some of that but really I just want to have more control over the level of grit with the volume knob. But I think I have a wider issue with the taper of the volume pot on my JM - I don't really like it at all. I don't know if it's the linear taper I don't like or if it's the idiosyncrasies of this particular pot. Even with a properly dry signal, the drop in volume is almost imperceptible to me until I roll back to 3 or 2. I mean it's there before that, but it feels subtle. I find the taper of my Tele volume pot to be far more usable and satisfactory.

I don't actually hoard gear. I have the two guitars I've mentioned, one amp and a Pedal Train Novo 18 -- and I only keep as many pedals as I can fit on that platform (plus a mini wah off the board). So I kinda need that tight set-up to work as well for both my guitars as possible.

[marqueemoon]

Yeah, the “Hendrix clean tone” is a good way to put it. That’s what I think of as “cleanup”. The White Atom won’t do that particular thing.

If you are not chasing that specific sound and want to go with a volume pot taper that works better for you I can’t think of a reason not to. Hard to say if it will get you closer to the sound you’re after, but I can’t see it hurting.