Weird issue when split: Low E-String only Jaguar with Firebird Pickups, 4 Way Switch, Pickup Split

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MayTheFuzzBeWithYou
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Weird issue when split: Low E-String only Jaguar with Firebird Pickups, 4 Way Switch, Pickup Split

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:35 am

Hey there.
My Burgundy Mist Jag finally looks like a guitar.
I couldn't wait and had to give it a try with the only guard I had suitable for Humbuckers - the white "Blacktop" guard.

Problem A was that the toggle position wouldn't line up with the small diamond cavity - so I removed it - made way for the diamond plate (with the little tools I had at home - I had to make about 47 holes in it to "break" it out. So it looks a little rough.

So, my new controls are two individual on-off sliders for the pickups and one for the splitting of the Firebirds.
How would you wire that up? (also curious about tips on caps and resistors as I've never dealt with Firebirds before).

I used this for the splitting:
Image

could I also wire the (here green and silver) ground wires to the lower row? Or was this my mistake?
My problem here was, that my already widened cable slot was too narrow to yet hold another cable...


and combined it with this and standard Jaguar wiring...
Image

Should I put the wire/rod through all three switches? And in the middle log like on a normal Jag or like here in the top log? Or just the two for the pickups? Also I currently have a smaller one through the splitting switch.

I tried to make it v:
Image

Problems I'm facing:
A) whether neck or bridge switch is on or off - there is always a signal - I think it's the neck pickup as the bridge pickup can be "added".
Also the signal for the low E string on the neck PU is very low - not so on the other pickups...

B) splitter works as a kill switch - maybe due to the added cables...
Last edited by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou on Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Tele295
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Re: Minimalistic Jaguar Wiring (No rhythm circuit, Firebird split instead of strangle)

Post by Tele295 » Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:54 am

How does the split Firebird sound?
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Re: Minimalistic Jaguar Wiring (No rhythm circuit, Firebird split instead of strangle)

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:55 am

Tele295 wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:54 am
How does the split Firebird sound?
Not yet, haha.
Yesterday (at first attempt) I only had the Bridge pickup (but also the split) working - at very low volumes due to the late hour… today it‘s a kill switch instead…

But out of its construction it should be somewhat Lipstick‘ish.

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Re: Help please! Minimalistic Jaguar Wiring (No rhythm circuit, Firebird split instead of strangle)

Post by timtam » Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:18 pm

You have several diagrams that show different things, so it's difficult to follow.

Looking at your last diagram, there should be no grey wire connection between the split switch and the pickup selector switches. And the output wire to the controls should come off the middle selector switch lug of the last selector switch (where the grey wire terminates), not the top lug.

And of course the splits will only work correctly if the wire colours that your split switch is grounding are the correct coil inter-connect wire colours for your pickups.
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Re: Help please! Minimalistic Jaguar Wiring (No rhythm circuit, Firebird split instead of strangle)

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:18 am

timtam wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:18 pm
You have several diagrams that show different things, so it's difficult to follow.

Looking at your last diagram, there should be no grey wire connection between the split switch and the pickup selector switches. And the output wire to the controls should come off the middle selector switch lug of the last selector switch (where the grey wire terminates), not the top lug.

And of course the splits will only work correctly if the wire colours that your split switch is grounding are the correct coil inter-connect wire colours for your pickups.
True that. The last one is the one that I drew - basically what I did - taking „inspirations“ of the others.
But your reply already helped a lot. Cable colors came that way (already put together) with the instructions for splitting.

But ground wires to the lower lugs connected to ground checks out?

Thanks a lot! I will heat up the iron and report back! :)

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Re: Help please! Minimalistic Jaguar Wiring (No rhythm circuit, Firebird split instead of strangle)

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:59 am

Solved!

Thanks timtam.
I even had already changed the red wire to the correct spot - so the only thing needed to be done was cutting the wire between the split and the pickup switches. Yeah! Works perfectly now!

Here is the correct wiring diagram now if anyone should ever need something like this.
Image

The Firebirds sound amazing in both ways.
Pretty singlecoil-ish when split (I will compare them to the Lipsticks soon) - with the expected volume drop. But it's not too bad - and as the switch affects both pickups not unbalanced in any way - but I could wire a cap in there too.
With the switch on - they are very powerful but still very clear - the kind of transparent I wanted them to be! - I need to run some tests with other drives and amps - but first my index finger needs to heal (I cut it open on a stupid screw while cleaning the dishwasher :fp: - and it's not really fun playing with a band aid on).

Now I just need to deal with the tilting of the bridge Pickup (I'm guessing the spring being the cause) which is a lot tighter - as it needs to sit a lot higher than the neck PU due to the already angled neck pocket (thank you, Jon) - so at least no shim necessary.
Also I'm still not happy with the volume roll off. But I'll have a read about potentiometers and caps later.

Image

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New Wiring Ventures: Jaguar with Firebird Pickups, 4 Way Switch, Pickup Split - verification/explaination please!

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:32 am

So, my Parchment HH guard arrived - which gives me slightly more wiring options and is closer to where I want it to be:

There are very little 4 Way Tele Diagrams out there and even less with a Humbucker - and none that particularly says split-humbucker plus the thins I want.
This should be the one. Could you please verify if the Red and White wires that go to the little black box should represent a Humbucker split?

Or if not how I could add this to my wiring - could I for instant separate the two I think bare and blue in my own diagram (further above) and use them as two ground wires?

Image

Additional question: I read about a half out of phase wiring somewhere here where someone wanted to add a little Strat Quack to his Jag... could this be added too (with a second slide switch?

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Re: New Wiring Ventures: Jaguar with Firebird Pickups, 4 Way Switch, Pickup Split - verification/explaination please!

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:57 pm

I tried this exact diagram + what I believe is for Humbucker splitting (both at one slide switch, like above) and currently I get no sound at all… and can‘t find my multimeter (which will probably show up later)…

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Re: Weird issue when split: Low E-String only Jaguar with Firebird Pickups, 4 Way Switch, Pickup Split

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:41 pm

Took me a while to get back to this - after some frustration that only the bridge pickup would work - when I found out that I'd have to separate the blue and bare wire to get the two grounds I'd need to make the 4 way - series/parallel wiring happening. Now the diagram works, I get a signal from every position - but there is
one issue:

When in split mode I only get a very low (almost none) signal from the low E-string while the other strings - and also the E-string in Humbucker mode appear normal. Has anyone ever had partial signal loss?
what could it be and how do I cure it?

I have to test this again tomorrow (when I can turn the amp up a bit). But it's rather weird.
I think I remember a similar issue in my very first attempt (when the rod went to all three sliders instead of just the two for the pickups).

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Re: Weird issue: Low E-String only Jaguar with Firebird Pickups

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:18 am

Sorry to bump this again - but even back in the very simple 2x on/off, split, 1xV 1xT wiring (see above) it occurs.
Only on the neck pickup (bridge works fine) - but in HB and split mode.

I don‘t see how the pickup angle should cause such a specific problem (also it‘s almost flat).

Any ideas why else the E string could be at half the level as the rest? A problem in the wiring would cause „more“ problems, right?

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Re: Weird issue when split: Low E-String only Jaguar with Firebird Pickups, 4 Way Switch, Pickup Split

Post by NICQ » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:35 am

I had something similar twice : once a humbucker inside a Jazzmaster cover has moved a bit to the right/lower so the low e string was placed next to the pole - far off enough to sound very weak ... second time on a NR-Firebird pickup where the pickguard was not cut correctly and the pickups were mis-aligned (a bit too much to the right) so that on the bridge the low e was very weak because it was sitting outside of the coil's magnetic field...

Try lifting the string out of the bridge saddle groove and move it over the pickup couple mm left or right to make sure it's not smth like that

Not sure if that could occur in split coil mode only though...

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Re: Weird issue when split: Low E-String only Jaguar with Firebird Pickups, 4 Way Switch, Pickup Split

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:47 am

Well the pickguard should be fine - but I‘ll check that with the string thank you very much!
Meanwhile the pickup-builder also mentioned I could try flipping hot and ground wires to change the one that is being turned off…when splitting.

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