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Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:23 am
by Bradley-Jazz
Your neck angle is too low, and/or the neck itself is sitting too low in the body. Therefore the bridge has to be very low to accommodate it. It's fixable with a shim to lift the body end of the heel up so the bridge can rise. Many wonderful old fenders came with shims installed in the factory. It's not ruined, just really not necessary to have been done - can you see the shaving with the neck installed? And also, it is so much more trouble to shave it than to put a shim in to correct the original angle if it needed it - it could have had a shim at the head end of the neck pocket if it needed to drop the neck angle in the first place.

Have a search around these parts - you can shim it yourself using a little bit of business card to start off with (and quite possibly end up with - that's what's in my tele), and can get proper full pocket wooden shims cut to angle.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:30 pm
by DrQuasar
I also think it's either the nut or the neck angle.

This is kind of a longshot but...any chance the bridge got switched around after a string change or something like that? Maybe your high strings are messed up because they're sitting in grooves the lower strings made and vice versa. Probably won't make a difference but it's easy to try so might be worth a go.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:43 pm
by andy_tchp
andyman wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:00 am
Re: the nut, that was my first thought but the guy said the action is about as low as it'll go without buzzing. It looks pretty low, in fairness.
You need to measure the nut relief. It will always 'look pretty low'.

You want the thickness of a piece of paper gap between the string and the first fret when fretted at the third. MAX.

And find a new tech that knows how to cut nut slots properly. It's a 10-15 minute job.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:36 pm
by JSett
That nut could do with being shaved down overall quite a bit too...those slots are way deeper than they should be from the top

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:25 am
by efiug
DrQuasar wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:30 pm
This is kind of a longshot but...any chance the bridge got switched around after a string change or something like that? Maybe your high strings are messed up because they're sitting in grooves the lower strings made and vice versa. Probably won't make a difference but it's easy to try so might be worth a go.
I do believe that the bridges on these are supposed to have the screws at the back, might make a difference since the the intonation point would be on the back of the saddle instead of the front like it is and give just a little extra intonation range.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:06 am
by andyman
efiug wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:25 am
DrQuasar wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:30 pm
This is kind of a longshot but...any chance the bridge got switched around after a string change or something like that? Maybe your high strings are messed up because they're sitting in grooves the lower strings made and vice versa. Probably won't make a difference but it's easy to try so might be worth a go.
I do believe that the bridges on these are supposed to have the screws at the back, might make a difference since the the intonation point would be on the back of the saddle instead of the front like it is and give just a little extra intonation range.
Holy shit, I think you two may be onto something. In images for the guitar the saddle screws face the bridge. The saddle screws are currently facing the pickups on mine. I managed to find an old photo of it from the day I took it for assessment:

Image


Also facing the bridge.
So it may have been reversed during the setup? This could be the issue, right?

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:28 am
by andy_tchp
No.

Sharp on first 3-4 frets: It’s the nut.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:34 am
by andyman
andy_tchp wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:28 am
No.

Sharp on first 3-4 frets: It’s the nut.
Still gonna take it to get rechecked, but I just thought this could have contributed? The saddles on those three slant toward the nut, shortening the effective string length.
Fwiw, I tried playing with a capo on the first fret and it didn't seem to fix the issue.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:38 am
by andy_tchp
They’re adjustable (and presumably the “tech” did adjust these to set the intonation). How’s the intonation at the 12th fret?

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:41 am
by andyman
andy_tchp wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:38 am
They’re adjustable (and presumably the “tech” did adjust these to set the intonation). How’s the intonation at the 12th fret?
I can double-check later, but it was fine by his measurements.

The three problematic strings are as far back as they can go, while the others have some wiggle-room:

Image

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:08 am
by sal paradise
The saddle would still have to be all the way back on those strings even if the bridge faces the other way…

The TOM on my mustang & my LP both have the screws facing the neck.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:10 am
by DrQuasar
I still think it's the nut/neck relief too but if you flip it back around the other way and it works, then it works. It just takes a few minutes to loosen the strings and give a whirl even though it probably won't work.

It doesn't matter which was the screws face on the TOM bridge just so long as they face whichever way they were when it was set up and intonated.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:07 am
by andyman
For those still interested, tech #2 said "no thanks, not sure I can fix this", at which point I took it to a slightly pricier tech #3 who said "hold my beer", set it up with 12s and had it back to me playing like a machine within a week. I'm so relieved.

Go tell your techs how much you love them.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:25 pm
by Nudger
andyman wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:41 am


Image
[/quote]

If you are leaving the bridge positioned as pic..

Remove E-B-G saddles and put back in reversed to give yourself more room for intonation.

Re: Intonation woes

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:45 pm
by andyman
We're way past that son