Can series wiring mod effect overall JM/Jag tone?

[Iffymiffy]

Hi all, I have a question here, I have a Jag that I want to send in to my regular guy to setup with Pure Vintage 65s and a Series mod, but he warned me that he recently did a series mod on a Jag with V-Mods and the customer complained that the tone feels darker than usual in the normal non-series positions, as if it lost some treble.

Apparently it could be placebo effect as the customer is still in the midst of testing things out, but has anybody heard of or experienced this before?

[timtam]

A series connection, done properly, simply takes the coil-negative of one pickup - that would normally be hard-wired grounded - and instead switches it to connect to the coil-positive of the other pickup. So there is no possibility of the pickups sounding different when not switched in series - they are connected exactly as they would be if there was no series switching in the guitar. "Done properly" requires that the first-mentioned pickup (whose coil negative will be sent to the other's coil positive in series) cannot have a shared coil-negative /claw ground, as standard jag pickups do. Instead, it must have separate wires for coil-negative and claw ground - by cutting the jumper from coil-negative to the claw, and adding a ground wire just for the claw. Because the claw needs to stay grounded at all times. But failing to do that might only affect the sound of the in-series position, not the regular (parallel) position.

In any case your PV65 would need to be modified like that. Re your tech's report, the V-mods that were on the Am Pro jag already have this mod, as that guitar has series switching as stock. So it's unclear if he's talking about a guitar with V-mods but which was not an Am Pro ? In any case we'd have to know exactly how the other customer's guitar was wired.

Stock jag pickup ...



Jag pickup with separate claw ground (as on jag V-mods and Marr jag pickup, to facilitate series or out-of-phase) ..

[Iffymiffy]

^thanks so much for the detailed reply Tim!

I don’t know so much of the other customers Jag and if there really is a problem or just user error, but I think it was my tech kinda giving me a disclaimer like “don’t say I didn’t warn you about this if it doesn’t work as you expect ok?”.

I thought of trying the wiring myself but I did read about the Pv65 needing to be ungrounded from the claw etc so that is why I thought to just get someone better skilled to take care of it in case i mess up the pickups.

[Downsman]

Hi all, I have a question here, I have a Jag that I want to send in to my regular guy to setup with Pure Vintage 65s and a Series mod, but he warned me that he recently did a series mod on a Jag with V-Mods and the customer complained that the tone feels darker than usual in the normal non-series positions, as if it lost some treble.

Apparently it could be placebo effect as the customer is still in the midst of testing things out, but has anybody heard of or experienced this before?

It's just possible that the change in how/where the pickup is grounded could introduce some kind of interference or noise that wasn't there before. That happened when I did the series mod on my Bass VI. Had to add a third ground wire to all three pickups, and when I put it all back together it was noisier than before. I had to redo the connections and added copper shielding to quiet it down again. Not sure how you'd confuse that with a darker tone, but you never know.

[ldp54002]

I rewired my American Original Jag like this (top diagram) and I love it. I desoldered the claw from the pickup lead and ran a dedicated claw ground. I didn't really notice a difference in either noise or tone (other than the thicker sound of series, of course); to me it sounds the way it did from the factory, just with the added benefit of the pickups in series when both switches are down.

To my ear, the Jaguar PV65s sound really good in series. They just sound a bit fuller and throatier, they don't get especially dark sounding. I do like them better with the strangle switch engaged, though.

Years ago, I had a JM with PV65 JM pickups that I wired in series and I didn't like it as much. Took away everything that makes a JM great without adding anything really useful in return. It just sounded like a muddy kinda-sorta humbucker.

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

I had a real dark and muddy sounding guitar once as a result from series parallel wiring gone wrong.
As I didn‘t know I had to make a separate claw ground wire.
And a second time when I tried my luck with a Tele/Johnny Marr like 4 way switch (with already separated grounds - but somehow this switch is my archenemy).

I‘ve gone back to 3 on-off switches and now it‘s my most lively Jaguar! Those are as well PV65 Jaguar pickups.

So I‘d say if done right - also with good shielding properties of the guitar - you shouldn‘t have more interferences as you would have otherwise…

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

I had a real dark and muddy sounding guitar once as a result from series parallel wiring gone wrong.
As I didn‘t know I had to make a separate claw ground wire.
And a second time when I tried my luck with a Tele/Johnny Marr like 4 way switch (with already separated grounds - but somehow this switch is my archenemy).

I‘ve gone back to 3 on-off switches and now it‘s my most lively Jaguar! Those are as well PV65 Jaguar pickups.

So I‘d say if done right - also with good shielding properties of the guitar - you shouldn‘t have more interferences as you would have otherwise…

[Iffymiffy]

It's just possible that the change in how/where the pickup is grounded could introduce some kind of interference or noise that wasn't there before.

I see, I had a CIJ jag a few years ago that had slight interference no matter what I changed out or how much I shielded. I ended up trading it away before solving the problem.

Hopefully something like that wont happen again as that was seriously one big waste of time and energy LOL

[Iffymiffy]

To my ear, the Jaguar PV65s sound really good in series. They just sound a bit fuller and throatier, they don't get especially dark sounding. I do like them better with the strangle switch engaged, though.

Thanks for this! I was concerned that the PV65s might end up muddy. Did you stick with the stock 1meg pots?

[Iffymiffy]

I had a real dark and muddy sounding guitar once as a result from series parallel wiring gone wrong.
As I didn‘t know I had to make a separate claw ground wire.
And a second time when I tried my luck with a Tele/Johnny Marr like 4 way switch (with already separated grounds - but somehow this switch is my archenemy).

This is interesting, so the guitar actually became dark and muddy in non-series switch positions due to incorrect wiring?

Did it sound like a blanket was put over the sound or was there static/interference etc noises doing strange things to the tone?

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

This is interesting, so the guitar actually became dark and muddy in non-series switch positions due to incorrect wiring?

Did it sound like a blanket was put over the sound or was there static/interference etc noises doing strange things to the tone?

It was like having the tone pot down to maybe two or so… super weird and not Jag-y at all any more.

[Iffymiffy]

It was like having the tone pot down to maybe two or so… super weird and not Jag-y at all any more.

I see, and you said it was because you didn’t ground the claw separately? Do you remember what you did wrongly with the Marr style switch and did it result in the same muddy tone?

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

It was like having the tone pot down to maybe two or so… super weird and not Jag-y at all any more.

I see, and you said it was because you didn’t ground the claw separately? Do you remember what you did wrongly with the Marr style switch and did it result in the same muddy tone?

Yeah, I think I just combined that extra ground (what should have been the cover to a common grounding point.

With the Marr switching it was something else - I might just have had the switch upside down…either way it also didn‘t give me all the switching options - one of the two pickups was always on, it was darker and a lot of hum in one position. But I try not to remember my mistakes or how I got there - and try to be solution orientated instead.

I know there is a way of deducting your way through electronics - which I’m not very good at - I just try to read wiring plans like Lego-instructions - but if it‘s multiple errors I try a simpler wiring first (like just one pickup or no fancy extra switches) and if this ain‘t working either I go back and start from scratch.

[ldp54002]

To my ear, the Jaguar PV65s sound really good in series. They just sound a bit fuller and throatier, they don't get especially dark sounding. I do like them better with the strangle switch engaged, though.

Thanks for this! I was concerned that the PV65s might end up muddy. Did you stick with the stock 1meg pots?

Yep, everything else is stock from the factory.

[Downsman]

It's just possible that the change in how/where the pickup is grounded could introduce some kind of interference or noise that wasn't there before.

I see, I had a CIJ jag a few years ago that had slight interference no matter what I changed out or how much I shielded. I ended up trading it away before solving the problem.

Hopefully something like that wont happen again as that was seriously one big waste of time and energy LOL

I should add I've done the series mod on two jags as well with no problems. A Squier CV and a Vintera with Creamery Alt 88 pickups. In series with the bass cut switch on keeps the Jag character but with more bite and edge to it. Definitely recommend it.