Short-Scale Bass Pickups

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Embenny
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Re: Short-Scale Bass Pickups

Post by Embenny » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:15 pm

johnnysomersett wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:33 pm
It sounds a lot better unplugged than plugged in. It's still a little flubby but has more bite and clank than amplified.

Currently using D'Addario Chromes, 100-45, Short Scale.

I guess there may be some improvement to be had going up to 105 and nickel, I must have overlooked the gauge issue
Yeah, personally I would go thicker on the low strings for sure, and move to a brighter material. Coated nickel stays brighter longer than uncoated and I like the smooth feel, but stainless steel is grippier and even brighter if desired.

Also, I have no idea what a parallel hot rails sounds like in a bass. That may be a major component as well. Generally, bass pickups tend to be pretty low inductance and even in parallel, that Hot Rails might just not be a tone that you like.

And it's in pretty much the least-aggressive sounding spot on a bass too.

I put active ceramic EMG strat pickups in my Bass VI and let me tell you, those took it from polite and vintage sounding to modern and aggressive in a single bound. My Chowny is active as well, as is the Alembic SCS. My passive shortscale J Bass is much more tame in comparison, though it's not flubby. Just more of a Motown kind of J Bass than a Marcus Miller or Geddy Lee kind of J Bass.

The Stingray shortscales are passive but have custom neodymium pickups designed for them, so perhaps traditional passive pickups might never get you all the way there on that bass.
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JSett
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Re: Short-Scale Bass Pickups

Post by JSett » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:23 pm

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:02 pm
I use 110-50 flats on my 34" Warwick, and I'd probably be running a 115 low string on a short-scale at least.

I will say too that the Hot Rails is pretty dark and if you have 250K pots in there you might wanna swap them out for 500K-1M or just put in something a little brighter, like the Vintage Rails, Cool Rails, or one of the Dimarzio rail options.
I've got 1m pots in there and the way it's wired is a a lot brighter and lower output than how you'd imagine a Hotrail to be.
mbene085 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:15 pm
Yeah, personally I would go thicker on the low strings for sure, and move to a brighter material. Coated nickel stays brighter longer than uncoated and I like the smooth feel, but stainless steel is grippier and even brighter if desired.

Also, I have no idea what a parallel hot rails sounds like in a bass. That may be a major component as well. Generally, bass pickups tend to be pretty low inductance and even in parallel, that Hot Rails might just not be a tone that you like.

And it's in pretty much the least-aggressive sounding spot on a bass too.

I put active ceramic EMG strat pickups in my Bass VI and let me tell you, those took it from polite and vintage sounding to modern and aggressive in a single bound. My Chowny is active as well, as is the Alembic SCS. My passive shortscale J Bass is much more tame in comparison, though it's not flubby. Just more of a Motown kind of J Bass than a Marcus Miller or Geddy Lee kind of J Bass.

The Stingray shortscales are passive but have custom neodymium pickups designed for them, so perhaps traditional passive pickups might never get you all the way there on that bass.
I'll order a set of thicker strings then, and in a bright material...see if that helps. Short Scale limits options somewhat, and my body chemistry loves to kill steel strings within a couple of hours playing (no Rotosound goodness for me :'( )

Putting the Hotrail in parallel basically makes it thinner/brighter than a straight humbucker. Sounds like a slightly overwound single coil - or how both pickups in a Danelectro sound together. Maybe it was the wrong choice. It was the easiest solution to fitting something in the right sized hole though 😂
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Re: Short-Scale Bass Pickups

Post by JSett » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:56 pm

I've actually just found one of these digging around in my parts drawers...

Image

... obviously from when I was messing around with drop tunings years ago. I've stuck it on and, yes, it has improved it massively. It's still not perfect but it's a good sign.

Maybe some really bright and heavy strings, plus a more appropriate pickup, will solve it all enough to make me want to keep it. I will try splitting the coils in the Hotrail tonight and see if taking it down to around 8k and in single-coil/split mode improves it too
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Re: Short-Scale Bass Pickups

Post by JSett » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:50 am

Well, despite totally derailing poor old Shadoweclipse's thread it will actually come full circle and back on topic here

I got home and pulled it's pants down this afternoon and de-wired the SD Hotrail so just one coil is active. Big improvement. There was the predictable increase in noise but a whole load of clarity came back. Combined with the fatter low-E, and it being a brighter nickel, I've finally got a pretty decent sound out of it!

It's not perfect, and I might get one of Jaimes dedicated pickups from the Creamery to swap in down the line. Apart from that, not bad
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Re: Short-Scale Bass Pickups

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:20 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:50 am
Well, despite totally derailing poor old Shadoweclipse's thread it will actually come full circle and back on topic here
No worries!! I've been reading everything and need to respond to a few things, I was just really busy last night and this morning at work so far. Some good information, so I don't mind the derail, if it truly is, at all!!
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Re: Short-Scale Bass Pickups

Post by Embenny » Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:24 pm

johnnysomersett wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:50 am
Well, despite totally derailing poor old Shadoweclipse's thread it will actually come full circle and back on topic here

I got home and pulled it's pants down this afternoon and de-wired the SD Hotrail so just one coil is active. Big improvement. There was the predictable increase in noise but a whole load of clarity came back. Combined with the fatter low-E, and it being a brighter nickel, I've finally got a pretty decent sound out of it!

It's not perfect, and I might get one of Jaimes dedicated pickups from the Creamery to swap in down the line. Apart from that, not bad
Cool! I suspected as much. Parallel and single coil are really dramatically different, especially on a bass.

I wired my Musicman's humbucker for parallel (stock), series (like a Sterling) and single coil, and it's absolutely wild how massive a difference it makes. Parallel is quacky like you expect a 'ray to be, series is fat and aggressive, and single coil sounds shockingly similar to a Jazz Bass, all without changing anything on the bass itself.

As for the original question, which I've managed to not answer directly.

I love active pickups in a shortscale, personally. The two that have EMGs in them are currently my favourites, but I will also say that I think pickup placement trumps specific pickup models on a bass. A musicman humbucker in a P bass location and a P bass pickup in a musicman location sound nothing like either a P bass or a musicman.

I have shortscales with passive PJ and JJ configurations and they're also lovely sounding. If the pickup location is proportional to the full scale model, shortscales just sound a touch warmer and rounder and that's it, so they don't need a really special approach to pickups or anything. Just avoid overwound passive models - a shortscale doesn't need a Quarter Pounder P bass pickup, it's going to sound fat as hell with any decent vintage-spec pickup. All the things I love and hate about any type of pickup are present on a shortscale, just with the bass and mids turned up by 1/10 and the treble turned down by 1/10 (which you can lean into or away from with string choice, etc).
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Re: Short-Scale Bass Pickups

Post by kalipigeon » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pm

Another thing to consider is that most of your grind, cut, and aggressiveness really cone from your midrange frequencies pushing your preamp. The rail strat type pickups in general aren't super middy, and in parallel you're looking at a smiley-face EQ curve.

I would try wiring it in series.

After that, if it is too woofy in the low end, bridge the two coils with a capacitor rather than a direct link to filter some of the lows from one of the two coils. Something in the 0.001-0.004uF range should work based on your tastes. You could even wire up a switch to swap between cap/no-cap.

Failing that, if you decide to change pickups you may find some interesting results with Lace Sensor pickups. Their coils tend to produce a more compressed even sound that works well for bass and their resistance/inductance are well published.

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Re: Short-Scale Bass Pickups

Post by burpgun » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:48 pm

I've been messing about with short scales for quite a while. I got the mix right on a Squier Jaguar shorty I bought back in 2012. Those things were cheap and the trick was that weight from one example to the next could be radially different. Mine was heavy and felt solid. I had another one but it was super light and unbalanced. Swapped the stock pickup out for some unknown model American P pickup I'd taken out of another bass, and it came to life. The J is still in there but no longer wired in. I use the Jag for the brightest, clankiest sound I can go for, and it's strung with heavy DR Hi Beams. It's a little thinner and snappier sounding relative to my Precision, but it's subtle enough most wouldn't notice.

I always play with some level of dirt so single coils are a struggle for me on bass just on the noise factor, but whatever they put in the Pawnshop Bass VIs, those are good pickups . The humbucker was super trash, but the two singles are clear and balanced and just great. Only downside is noise, but that's just how they roll.

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