Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

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SixStringSlinger
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Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by SixStringSlinger » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:35 am

Note: This is a copy of a thread I posted on TDPRI. All my information is the same, though of course the ensuing conversation will be different

This isn't a NGD post, strictly speaking, but it will have some of that and a lot more.

My girlfriend got me one of the new Squier XII's as soon as they were available sometime in June. It arrived shortly after and since then (when not moving, raising a puppy or just busy with life in general) I've been playing it as well as planning and executing mods on it. Since a lot of us (here and elsewhere) seem interested in these guitars (and a select few especially interested in potential mods) I thought I'd share my experience (and show off my guitar).

I'd wanted an electric 12-string for a long time, due in large part to my love of Tom Petty. The situation which wasn't helped by a couple of acoustic ones (the first - an old Goya - wasn't bad but I didn't "bond" with it for whatever reason; the second - a Sigma - has been lovely and only needs a little attention to make it even better).


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Aside from music that I love, I also really enjoy 12-string guitars for writing; something about the octave effect on the 4 lowest courses and the slight phasing effect I get from tuning the strings in each of the highest two slightly off from each other fills things out in a way that strongly suggests melodies, bass lines and other parts aside from what's actually being played.

The trouble was deciding which electric 12 to go for. Pretty much anything vintage was out due to expense, questions about integrity/reliability or both. Rickenbakers of any age are also too expensive for me. There's at least one Gretsch model that might have been doable but that I wasn't 100% sure I was into; I couldn't say why as I'd like a 6-string Gretsch someday. There's also at least one Epiphone floating around, but I knew I wanted my electric 12-string more jangly than you'd normally expect a humbucker-equipped guitar to be).

A 12-string Stratocaster was a real possibility; they seem well-liked, can be had for reasonable money, they jangle and I love Strats. However, I already have a (6-string) Strat and I don't generally like "repeating" guitar types in my collection (my Tele/Esquire and Jazzmaster/the eventual subject of this post notwithstanding).

Then came the Fender Alternate Reality Electric XXI's. I liked the look and sound of these and didn't mind the differences between them and the originals. I even spent a couple of hours playing one at Guitar Center and would have gone home with it if the manager had been willing to come down some (or if I'd been willing to be more financially irresponsible). I left without it that day and they were discontinued shortly after, with used examples being hard to come by at less than 150% of their original price.

All the while, I'd been intensely manifesting a Squier Electric XII. It had to happen eventually, right? They'd done virtually every other Fender guitar/variant at that point (and some others Fender hadn't), and bee recognized more and more as being able to turn out a great guitar (and not just "for the price"). I even signed the petition at the Offset Guitars forum (who knew/konws if the would/did work, but it couldn't/didn't hurt!).

So suffice to say that I was delighted when I saw the announcement for the Jazzmaster XII. No! It didn't have XXI-style pickups. Yes! It looked of Jazzmaster than XII. But it looked good, and whatever ended up not seeming good seemed like it would be easy enough to deal with. In an important, eternal lesson in your partner almost certainly knowing/listening more than you think they do, my girlfriend got on Reverb and ordered one in the finish I preferred:


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Here's the NGD portion of this post: Right out of the box, there was nothing to complain about. It was even in tune (not that it would really mean anything if it wasn't, but it is a nice surprise). The guitar felt solid and well put-together, held tuning well and was reasonably well-intonated. The contouring on the body (especially where the forearm sits) seem a bit sudden or sharp, which I think shows in the above picture. Not problematic, but not as sexy as usual (and my Vintage Modified Jazzmaster shows that Squier can manage that.

The action was a touch high over the high frets even with the low-E saddle as low as it could go, so I wound up inserting a small shim into the neck cavity, but if for some reason this were a universe where that wasn't a thing I could have made do nicely.

I'm no expert on nuts, but aside from the aforementioned solid tuning, open chords are in tune and I don't even think about string spacing.

The second closest I can come (more later) to a complaint on this guitar's stock condition is the tuners. As I said, they hold well, and they look good, too. However, turning the keys feels a little rough on some of them, and I can feel something like a seam or ridge along them which makes them feel a bit cheap. But it's not terrible, it's not visually apparent and they work fine.

Acoustically, the guitar rings loud and clear, and for the first few days that was how I played it while I dialed in most of the set-up. When I finally got a chance to plug it in I knew that at least some modification was going to happen.

To be fair, I sort of expected it. My major complaint about this guitar is the pickups, particularly the bridge pickup which is pretty hot and not at all what I (or, I think, most players) want from my electric 12-string. Resistance is not the whole story, but as a comparison, the bridge pickup measures about 11k while, as far as I know, traditional, vintage-style Jazzmaster pickups are more 6k-7k. I also don't believe these are "Jazzmaster pickups", strictly speaking, but more on that later.

The 3-way selector toggle is a little stiff, but it works well and it seems the "good kind" rather than the "cheap import kind". The volume and tone controls work well, though I felt the tone control was a little too subtle for me.

...

Even before I got the guitar I knew I'd be doing some mods, mostly the get the guitar closer to a "real" XII in terms of aesthetic and function, as well as to fix/change whatever I didn't like about the guitar.

Once I had the guitar in hand, my "for sure" mods included a 4-way rotary switch, a bridge surround, XII-style pickups and a metal control plate.

That didn't last long.

The metal bits are available from Faction Guitars, but they wound up being a no-go for me. The first apparent problem was the control plate, in that the lower control bout of the Jazmaster-style pickguard on my guitar curves down, away from the body, while the traditional XII's curves back up slightly, toward it. See below:

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I don't mind filling and drilling mounting holes, but I was concerned that the XII plate wouldn't properly cover the routing on the Squier.

No problem, however! I'll just use a Jaguar control plate! Gosh I felt smart.

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I also wondered if the guitar would come routed for a JM/Jag-style rhythm circuit, sort of how Esquires might come with Tele neck pickup routing, or Teles and Strats that don't come stock with humbuckers routed to fit them, either to appease players by making a common mod easier, or as a money-saving gesture (even if it's not used it'll be covered up, so just rout them all rather than having different plans for different models).

Alas, this was not the case. See this pics I found on Reddit showing the guts and routing:


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These pics probably also show my next problem: the bridge surround plate.

This is a simple metal plate (found on the Alternate Reality XII) that's just meant to show as much chrome on the body of the guitar as the original XII bridge did. See below:

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Compare these with the pic of my Squier XII above.

There was a concern among myself, others I talked to on threads here, and other threads I read elsewhere that the plate may not fit between the bridge and the larger Jazzmaster pickups (and covers) the Squier comes with. Even if I replaced the pickups with XII-style ones like I intended, there was a question as to whether the routing for the JM pickups would make the area between the bridge and the rout too thin.

Still, the only way to answer a question is to answer it, so I ordered the plate. More on this later.

The pickups also posed a mild challenge. It turns out you can buy the ones used in the Alternate Reality XII, but these are subject to a minimum order of 60 or so, so that was out. Used ones are hard to come by, and vintage ones are stupid-expensive.

I considered some G&L z-coils, as it seemed I could remove them from their covers and use traditional XII covers on them, but as you can see below, it looked like I might have to file down the bobbin somehow to get them to fit:

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Continued in the next post...

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by SixStringSlinger » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:47 am

I eventually found and ordered some XII-style pickups wound and sold by eBay seller blacknhairy.

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But I haven't used them yet! I was itching to get started, but I didn't have a pickguard set to receive the XII's. However! I did have a set of Pure Vintage '65's recently liberated from my regular Jazzmaster (which itself received some nice custom-wound Bootstraps), so I decided to wire those in in place of the stock pickups, along with the rotary switch.

The rotary switch in an interesting story. I knew the original XII's had a 4-way switch, for neck, bridge, both pickups in parallel, and one other The question was what the other was.

I found conflicting information on this from different seemingly trustworthy (though not infallible) sources.

This video from Mike & Mike's Guitar Bar (featuring known offset expert Mike Adams) claims that the "extra" position was both pickups in parallel and out of phase. These pickup positions are at about 3:20 in this video. THere's also interesting discussion about the pickups with Curtis Novak shortly after:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQPrpXfZxyA&t=347s

Meanwhile, this video from Norm's says that the extra pickup position was not out-of-phase, but series. Playing demo starts at about 5:50, with the series selection at about 6:50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1gERtO-MGM&t=439s

I'd think that both sources would be knowledgable about this and know what they're talking about, and neither addresses what the other says. So I was confused, but no matter! I'd just use the rotary switch for in-/out-of-phase, and a mini-toggle for series/parallel! I felt smart again!

I got this switch...

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products ... 4-position

...some random Daka-ware switches I found on eBay, and a simple DPDT mini-toggle. The rotary switch fit just fine in the stock rout, and since the Jaguar control plate push everything I little closer to the jack, that left the original volume pot pickguard hole available for the mini-toggle.

I found some diagrams and got to soldering, until I hit a snag detailed here: https://www.tdpri.com/threads/need-help ... h.1142486/

Basically, all the parallel selections worked (including out-of-phase), but things got weird when switching the mini-toggle to series. This was originally sorted out with help from a poster on Offset Guitars who suggested using the rotary for series/parallel and the mini-toggle for phase. That worked just fine.ere are the diagrams I used in case anyone finds it helpful.

Here are the connections for the phase switch. I used the bridge pickup here just because it's closer to where I wanted to put the switch:

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Then came the rotary switch connections:

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Here's the numbering for the rotary's lugs:

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I got that wired up and it worked flawlessly. What's more, I find all of the tones useful. Series/out-of-phase was a particularly nice surprise; it has a similar "hollowed-out" tone to parallel/out-of-phase, without being quite so thin.

Here's where I started doing some "mock-ups" (if you can even call them that) to see how everything would come together aesthetically:

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As you can see, not nearly enough chrome.

By now I'd abandoned the idea of the bridge surround. I knew I wanted to keep the JM pickups in there at least some of the time, and even if I removed them permanently in favor of the XII's, I still wasn't sure about it.

That's when I started thinking of the rhythm circuit again.

I love the rhythm circuit on my Jazzmaster, mores since I re-qired it to work in all pickup positions (so now, rather than a fourth pickup position, it works more like a bright/dark switch for the guitar). I don't have the tools/skills/experience for good routing, and it's not something I plan to do much of, so I wasn't sure about investing in all that for one guitar. But I do know a guy, the same one who painted my JM's headstock to match the body.

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Schwing!

So here's how that will look:

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Double schwing! I like how both the top and bottom control sets have the "black in chrome" look.

So that's where things stand now. The XII is with "my guy". All the separate bits are wired up (lead circuit, rhythm circuit, rotary), and once I get the guitar back I'll be able to wire everything together, as well as fill and drill holes as needed for the new control plates.

The guy is also going to cut the stock pickguard to for the control plates, and assuming that comes out good I'll use it as a template to get another made to fit the XII pickups. Perhaps I'll solder in some of those quick-connect plugs to make switching easier.

Here's a teaser of how that might look:

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by SixStringSlinger » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:52 am

Here's some info on the stock pickups:

The guitar is still with the guy who's going to take care of the routing and pickguard. I'm anxious for it, but I told him there was no rush and I'd rather he take his time and do it right.

For now, for the curious, here are some shots of the stock pickups:

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Not sure what JM-51 is supposed to mean here. "JM" seems an obvious reference to "Jazzmaster", which is fine because it's in a guitar called a Jazzmaster, but these aren't typical, traditional-style JM pickups. Also, dig the concentric circles at the top of the pole pieces. These are not adjustable in any way I can tell.

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The undersides make my "These aren't Jazzmaster Jazzmaster pickups" claim more clear. I wonder if these are somehow similar to the J. Mascis or Classic Player JM pickups?

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Here's a comparison with a Duncan Designed pickup from my Vintage Modified (the only other JM pickups I have not currently in a guitar). The XII’s coil is stacked. This is the bridge pickup. The neck’s coil is shorter but it’s not readily apparent unless they’re side-by-side.

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Here are the DCR readings, first neck, then bridge.

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Here’s something curious. This is the Duncan Designed JM bridge pickup, which measures nearly identical to the XII one while being much flatter. I wonder why the XII’s coil is so tall, then.

These pickups don’t sound “bad” to me (whatever that even means), they just don’t give me what I want from an electric 12-string guitar (mostly the bridge pickup, but the neck as well). I am keeping them though, just in case I want to toughen up my regular Jazzmaster.

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by SixStringSlinger » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:53 am

An interesting thing I forgot to mention re. the pickups: I didn't really like the PV '65's in my regular Jazzmaster as they always sounded a little "wimpy". Even at full volume and with the heights where I liked them best they never pushed the amp in any way. However, I don't have the same complaint about them in my XII where, granted, I don't want too much growl from them, but they seem to push the amp more than they did in the regular JM. I wonder if the 12 strings (or, perhaps, always playing at least two strings at a time) contribute to this.

I also never mentioned the electronics. The guitar came stock with full-size pots, a 500k volume pot and a 250k tone. When re-wiring I used the same pot for the volume but changed the tone one to another 250k that appeared to have a smoother taper on my multimeter. We'll see how that works out. I also used the same value tone cap I use in my Jazzmaster, but that's subject to change depending on the results. I may also consider a no-load pot for the tone control for maximum brightness where desired.

For the rhythm circuit I used a 100k pot for the tone control (rather than the traditional 50k) to nudge its range just a little closer to where the lead circuit lives. I did the same thing on my JM and I liked the results.

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by SixStringSlinger » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:57 am

Finally, here are some readings I took of the XII-style pickups I got from eBay. Another poster said he saw a "hot" set for sale by the same seller and wanted to compare them to mine.

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Last thing for now: I also installed a treble bleed as I noticed some high-end loss when turning down the volume control. It makes sense as I had the same in my Jazzmaster when it had these pickups. All pots and caps and the treble bleed are subject to change once I get everything wired up; for now I just chose what worked in my regular JM (aside from the pickups, which I didn't love in the JM but are great in the XII.

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by Nudger » Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:01 am

Great thread! Thanks for the numbered rotary :)

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:37 am

Oh, that is interesting!
I‘ll be watching the transformation process!

I really dig the Mexican XII (and Vintage of course) but always was like… 1k+ for a 12-string that I might play idk…once a month and was originally very hyped when I heard that there would be a Squier…only to be rather disappointed when it turned out to have Jazzmaster aesthetics/pickups…

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by SignoftheDragon » Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:53 am

Definitely some useful & thorough info. I'll be watching as well!

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by javier-san » Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:17 am

Very cool little mods going on here!

I figured I'd chime in, but those concentric circles that are on the magnets are either from a combination of having a "dull" part-off/facing bit and being off center while using the lathe to machine those magnets to length.

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by MattK » Wed Nov 01, 2023 9:25 am

They’re on mine too. It’s ve seen them on cheap pickups before. It’s interesting because most flat polepiece magnets have a “brushed” end to my eye, as if cut from rod with a drop saw or similar. Would each polepiece be machined?

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by javier-san » Wed Nov 01, 2023 10:59 am

I’ve also seen them on Novak pickups!

Most I’ve seen are ground flat at the end, that’s what that brushed look usually indicates.

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by Sweetfinger » Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:15 am

The Squier XII pickups aren't trying to be anything other than inexpensive and satisfying for a wide audience. They are essentially a modern budget ceramic pickup like you'd see on an Affinity Stratocaster, worked to exist in a Jazzmaster form. A taller coil has a somewhat brighter sound than a wider flatter coil. The polepieces are plated steel, and the concentric circles are tooling marks. The ceramic magnets will give these a pretty bright, loud, punchy sound, akin to the 1990s Mexican Strat pickups, though the bridge is considerably hotter.

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by SixStringSlinger » Thu May 23, 2024 8:27 am

Update time!

I finally got the guitar back from the guy who was routing it for me (to make room for the rhythm circuit as well as to make room to the lead circuit pots that will be "pushed down" a bit by the Jaguar plate.

It took a really long time for reasons I won't get into but are totally understandable and not the guy's fault. The work is done and everything seems to fit, so it all worked out.

Here's something of a mock-up (though the final version will use parchment pickup covers):

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Here are the covers:

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I sent off the original pickguard to get a new one made to fit the plates and XII pickups, as well as to make a couple of holes a little smaller to better fit the rotary and mini switches. It's supposed to take 2-3 weeks from the time they receive the original, so between receiving it, making the new one and sending everything back to me I'm hoping it'll only be about another month until I can start mounting and wiring everything.

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Re: Squier Jazzmaster XII NGD/Mods

Post by walterwiseman » Thu May 23, 2024 2:36 pm

This is very cool. Looking forward to seeing it all together.

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