Tuffset Bridge

[RocknRollShakeUp]

Brilliant! I’d definitely be interested! And it looks fantastic too!

One thought though: I have a JM w the CS RSD bridge. There are little raised tabs inside the saddle grooves. These latch on to the strings, especially the wound strings, so there is never any string slippage that would allow the bridge to lose its proper position within its rocking range. I think that would be a very compelling and practical feature to add. Thoughts?

[Deed_Poll]

Sounds interesting, I did have some similar ideas regarding a string locking system or relief pocket after the break point, but decided it was a layer of complexity I wasn't looking for - but I'd be interested to see it if you're able to get a photo!

I'm not sure exactly what you're describing (whether it's a separate part inset), but I feel like creating the "tab" would have to be achieved reductively by *not* machining a little bit of the string groove and instead going over that tiny area with a different form tool to keep the string slot smooth and even.

Having the bridge fail to sufficiently grip the strings in vibrato use hasn't been a problem with a new set of slinkies (and I've been hitting the bar pretty hard), but I did accidentally shift the bridge once when I was trying to adjust the intonation on the D string (it got squeezed by the adjacent saddles - all identified and rectified in the tolerances of the production design). I was able to shift it back easily and it didn't lose its position in the thimbles, but not ideal! As a precaution, I think I will make a note in the manual to hold the bridge steady with one hand when making intonation adjustments with the other if using light strings.

Cheers!

[glennleaguesny]

So stoked on this! It will be a perfect bridge for the Marauder build I put together from your kit! Congrats Dan

[tammyw]

Great work! Glad to see it coming to fruition, I know you've put a lot of effort into it, and that's a really unique mechanism.

Regarding the RSD-J bridge: not what I would call a "tab", but instead of the string slot following a curved radius over the saddle, it's actually an inverted V cut at about 150° iirc, that comes to a slightly blunted point where the string rests. I'm not sure if the point is originally machined blunt or just crushed over by the strings. I actually like the single point better than a Mustang saddle because the string length tracks to that single point while rocking rather than "rolling off" backwards over a round saddle when the bridge rocks forwards.


^click for jumbo^

Can't say I wouldn't be tempted to play around with modifiying your saddles if I get my hands on one, but don't take it the wrong way, I do that with everything.

[timtam]

Never noticed that before with the slots on RSD pics. Another one ...

[alexpigment]

Regarding the RSD bridge, I would guess that those sharp peaks are actually for intonation reasons (a la Rutters or Gotoh intonated Tele saddles). With individual saddles, you wouldn't really need those peaks in the grooves. The gripping of the strings is probably a happy accident, although that's just speculation on my part.

[blimpage]

Hell yes!!! I've been checking the old thread regularly hoping for updates about this, I'm so stoked that it's reached this stage. Amazing work!

I've signed up for the mailing list, can't wait to be one of your first customers!

[RocknRollShakeUp]

Regarding the RSD bridge, yes inverted V peaks/cuts is a better way to describe them.

Thanks to those that posted pictures of the RSD. I’m traveling and away from my stuff.

I am sure that the inverse V cuts help with intonation too, BUT, they definitely grab onto the strings and prevent the strings from slipping in the saddle allowing the whole bridge to rock while maintaining the original string to saddle contact point.
This allows the bridge to always return to its set position instead of progressively tilt slipping backwards (or forwards - depending on how you use your bar).

I’ve found my RSD to be incredibly stable! Much more so than my bridges with the smoother, round, Mustang style saddles. I always seem to need to reposition my Staytrem back to neutral after doing vibrato, not so with the RSD.

This effect of having saddles with that increased friction point works even better w a shimmed neck or angled neck pocket that allows a higher bridge and more string pressure/sharper down angle across the saddles.

If you were to have a neck with a low angle and a fixed bridge like a mastery, you’d want those saddles to be as smooth and hard as possible, to deal with the string slipping back and forth across the saddles.

But with rocking bridges, as far as I can tell, you don’t want any slippage. In fact like I mentioned you would want the friction point across the saddle to be increased.

But I don’t like how I can’t adjust the radius on the RSD bridge, and the lack of more precise intonation control.
The lack of radius adjustment is a killer to me because I like to set the radius on the bridge flatter than my neck. For example, I use a 12” radius Staytrem bridge on my 10” radius Wildwood JM.

So I think your design looks just about perfect.. but
if you were to offer saddles that had that subtle inverted V feature I know that I would try them for sure!

[Deed_Poll]

Regarding the RSD bridge, yes inverted V peaks/cuts is a better way to describe them.

Thanks to those that posted pictures of the RSD. I’m traveling and away from my stuff.

I am sure that the inverse V cuts help with intonation too, BUT, they definitely grab onto the strings and prevent the strings from slipping in the saddle allowing the whole bridge to rock while maintaining the original string to saddle contact point.
This allows the bridge to always return to its set position instead of progressively tilt slipping backwards (or forwards - depending on how you use your bar).

I’ve found my RSD to be incredibly stable! Much more so than my bridges with the smoother, round, Mustang style saddles. I always seem to need to reposition my Staytrem back to neutral after doing vibrato, not so with the RSD.

This effect of having saddles with that increased friction point works even better w a shimmed neck or angled neck pocket that allows a higher bridge and more string pressure/sharper down angle across the saddles.

If you were to have a neck with a low angle and a fixed bridge like a mastery, you’d want those saddles to be as smooth and hard as possible, to deal with the string slipping back and forth across the saddles.

But with rocking bridges, as far as I can tell, you don’t want any slippage. In fact like I mentioned you would want the friction point across the saddle to be increased.

But I don’t like how I can’t adjust the radius on the RSD bridge, and the lack of more precise intonation control.
The lack of radius adjustment is a killer to me because I like to set the radius on the bridge flatter than my neck. For example, I use a 12” radius Staytrem bridge on my 10” radius Wildwood JM.

So I think your design looks just about perfect.. but
if you were to offer saddles that had that subtle inverted V feature I know that I would try them for sure!

I agree 100% with all you say about rocking/high-friction versus fixed-post/low-friction!

It's actually much harder from a physical perspective to get a fixed-post bridge's saddle friction low enough than it is to get a rocking bridge's friction high enough.

This is because a low friction saddle is being asked simultaneously to do two separate things - to constrain the thing in one dimension, and to let it go in another.

Traditional saddle adjustment designs (with set screws for height adjustment, and springs / locating screws for intonation) are actually very badly suited to the context of an offset guitar bridge. Though doubling or trebling the strings-per-saddle helps a lot with the downward pressure on the height screws, it has the opposite effect with the intonation springs. Because so little of the force holding the saddle forwards in its intonated location is coming from the break angle versus a Strat or Tele which has much greater break angle.

Having done some basic trig with hypothetical values, it's something like 10 times the forward force keeping the intonation screws located with a Strat bridge than a fixed-post Offset bridge @7°.

Here again we have the problem of a feature being told simultaneously to do two things at once - the fixed posts allow you to dial in more break angle and improve the captivity of the intonation screws; yet doing this massively increases the friction on the saddle.

We've done quite a bit of research on this, and fixed post bridge saddles have a great tendency to "walk" when using the vibrato to raise pitch, or returning back to pitch after a divebomb. It's because the spring is not strong enough to keep the head of the intonation screw in contact with the bridge lip, allowing all the geometry to flex on the spring. This is sub-optimal, and is not how they're designed to work.

The Tuffset saddle locking system therefore has great potential even for a fixed post bridge, as long as I redesign the saddles to be genuinely low-friction. I have some ideas of how to do so!

The other thing I would say is, I'm having four sets of different saddles manufactured in the first batch. I'm doing both brass and stainless, and trying a 90° and a 60° string slot angle in each. I suspect the brass 60° saddle will do a good job of gripping the bridge to the string, since the only other bridge that uses 60° slots is the original bridge (screw threads are 60°) and even though those are slippery/chrome plated, I've definitely had the best "gripping experience" with my original (slightly corroded) bridge saddles.

So I'm hoping the 60° string slot will be a go-er! Cheers,

Dan

[RocknRollShakeUp]

Regarding the RSD bridge, yes inverted V peaks/cuts is a better way to describe them.

Thanks to those that posted pictures of the RSD. I’m traveling and away from my stuff.

I am sure that the inverse V cuts help with intonation too, BUT, they definitely grab onto the strings and prevent the strings from slipping in the saddle allowing the whole bridge to rock while maintaining the original string to saddle contact point.
This allows the bridge to always return to its set position instead of progressively tilt slipping backwards (or forwards - depending on how you use your bar).

I’ve found my RSD to be incredibly stable! Much more so than my bridges with the smoother, round, Mustang style saddles. I always seem to need to reposition my Staytrem back to neutral after doing vibrato, not so with the RSD.

This effect of having saddles with that increased friction point works even better w a shimmed neck or angled neck pocket that allows a higher bridge and more string pressure/sharper down angle across the saddles.

If you were to have a neck with a low angle and a fixed bridge like a mastery, you’d want those saddles to be as smooth and hard as possible, to deal with the string slipping back and forth across the saddles.

But with rocking bridges, as far as I can tell, you don’t want any slippage. In fact like I mentioned you would want the friction point across the saddle to be increased.

But I don’t like how I can’t adjust the radius on the RSD bridge, and the lack of more precise intonation control.
The lack of radius adjustment is a killer to me because I like to set the radius on the bridge flatter than my neck. For example, I use a 12” radius Staytrem bridge on my 10” radius Wildwood JM.

So I think your design looks just about perfect.. but
if you were to offer saddles that had that subtle inverted V feature I know that I would try them for sure!

I agree 100% with all you say about rocking/high-friction versus fixed-post/low-friction!

It's actually much harder from a physical perspective to get a fixed-post bridge's saddle friction low enough than it is to get a rocking bridge's friction high enough.

This is because a low friction saddle is being asked simultaneously to do two separate things - to constrain the thing in one dimension, and to let it go in another.

Traditional saddle adjustment designs (with set screws for height adjustment, and springs / locating screws for intonation) are actually very badly suited to the context of an offset guitar bridge. Though doubling or trebling the strings-per-saddle helps a lot with the downward pressure on the height screws, it has the opposite effect with the intonation springs. Because so little of the force holding the saddle forwards in its intonated location is coming from the break angle versus a Strat or Tele which has much greater break angle.

Having done some basic trig with hypothetical values, it's something like 10 times the forward force keeping the intonation screws located with a Strat bridge than a fixed-post Offset bridge @7°.

Here again we have the problem of a feature being told simultaneously to do two things at once - the fixed posts allow you to dial in more break angle and improve the captivity of the intonation screws; yet doing this massively increases the friction on the saddle.

We've done quite a bit of research on this, and fixed post bridge saddles have a great tendency to "walk" when using the vibrato to raise pitch, or returning back to pitch after a divebomb. It's because the spring is not strong enough to keep the head of the intonation screw in contact with the bridge lip, allowing all the geometry to flex on the spring. This is sub-optimal, and is not how they're designed to work.

The Tuffset saddle locking system therefore has great potential even for a fixed post bridge, as long as I redesign the saddles to be genuinely low-friction. I have some ideas of how to do so!

The other thing I would say is, I'm having four sets of different saddles manufactured in the first batch. I'm doing both brass and stainless, and trying a 90° and a 60° string slot angle in each. I suspect the brass 60° saddle will do a good job of gripping the bridge to the string, since the only other bridge that uses 60° slots is the original bridge (screw threads are 60°) and even though those are slippery/chrome plated, I've definitely had the best "gripping experience" with my original (slightly corroded) bridge saddles.

So I'm hoping the 60° string slot will be a go-er! Cheers,

Dan

Thanks for your detailed and informative response. I may have missed it, but when is the projected release?

[monkfish]

Very exciting! If this comes in at less than a Mastery I’ll be all over it.

[Deed_Poll]

For those holding on, I've had a manufacturer update ready to post for about four days now, but the imgur app has been very patchy! Expect pics very soon

[Shadoweclipse13]

[Jaguar018]

Subscribed as well! I've had the Mastery bridges forever, but I'd like to try these out! I have a Jaguar, JM hybrid, and a Bass VI clone. I'm sure I can make use of at least one!

[Deed_Poll]

Hello all,

It's been some time since the last update, and I’m thrilled to announce we’re now entering the final phase of the Tuffset journey!

I’ll jump right into the most common questions we’ve been getting, but feel free to read on for more details. As always, I welcome any questions and comments you might have and endeavour to read and reply to every one

TLDR:

• Tuffset Bridge prototypes have been receiving amazing feedback from builders and players in the UK

• The design has been finalised, and the Tuffset is currently being manufactured

• We anticipate the Tuffset Bridge will be available in February 2024 - join the mailing list on the Tuffset Website and be the first to know when it’s available.

Here’s a sneak peek at the Tuffset testing mule, my own 1965 Lake Placid Blue Fender Jazzmaster outfitted with a Stainless-saddle Tuffset bridge:



The most obvious difference you will notice is that the footprint of this bridge is larger than the 2.1 Prototype I’ve shared before. I think this helps the Tuffset look more at home in a vintage context, less similar to a TOM-type bridge; and also allows for a huge 11mm of intonation adjustment which should allow it to be suitable for use even on a Bass VI!

Bringing the Tuffset to Luthiers & Builders:

Once the latest prototypes rolled off the presses, we wasted no time getting them into the hands of trusted luthiers, players, and builders in the UK with a “Tuffset Roadshow” of sorts. During their hands-on experience with the Tuffset Bridge, our guinea pigs had some fantastic insights not just on how the bridge feels and sounds within the guitar, but also on the process of installation and adjustment.

I’m delighted to say they were quick to highlight the exceptional clarity and power of the vibrato action. Many have hands-on experience with various aftermarket Offset bridges and fixed-post bridges, and what surprised them most was the complete freedom to lean into every note - every bend, every divebomb and every chord - without some nagging doubt that tuning will be lost or setup will come unravelled.

I’m pleased to say that the general consensus was that the authentic qualities of an Offset guitar are retained or heightened with the Tuffset, each string delivering a stronger and clearer signal without the typical drawbacks like dead spots, poor sustain, or unwanted buzzing that can often dog these unique instruments - but without transforming the unique sound of the instrument or authentic floating vibrato action that drew many of us to these guitars in the first place.

Despite copious abuse of the whammy bar, we were physically unable to put the guitar out of tune - and the locking system ensures that time spent dialling in the perfect setup isn’t squandered the next time you open your guitar case!

Creating the Installation Guide

I like to think we in the Offset tribe are generally pretty good at setting up a guitar, mostly because we’ve grown up doing it every five minutes!

We want each and every Tuffset player to use the bridge effectively and get the absolute best out of their guitar from day one - whether they’ve come through with Loctite-stained fingernails, or whether this marks their first tentative steps into the intriguing world of Offset guitars.

The Tuffset Installation Guides (product manuals) are now completed, and I’m really chuffed to share a sneak preview with you here!






We are supporting the manual with a video playlist which will be available online in several parts.

The packaging has been manufactured, and we have taken great care to design the dimensions of the product and shipping boxes to allow free shipping to Europe, the USA, Canada, the UK and many other territories worldwide.

Engineering Update

One important design decision that came out of this round of prototypes was the adoption of a 60° string slot instead of the more common 90° slot you might find on Mustang-style or other aftermarket bridges. We’re rolling this out now as a standard feature for all Tuffset rocking bridges.

For all their problems, I always credit the original Offset bridges for their ability to grip the strings and rock effectively. The older and more corroded they are, the better tune they seem to keep! But we mustn’t forget that the original string slots, being screw threads, were 60° - and playing these prototypes, I think that makes a bigger difference than I had realised.

Rocking bridges require the saddle and the string to grip onto each other, and the 60° string slot made a noticeable improvement - not only in the responsiveness of the bridge to vibrato use, but also in preventing your fretting hand from accidentally knocking the bridge out of its rocking axis.

It also effectively lowers the profile of the bridge slightly, so it might prevent “bottoming out” on the pickguard if that’s a problem on your guitar.

With the 60° string slots, it took a noticeably greater force to make the bridge “slip” on the strings, and we think this is of great benefit to players with robust picking hand technique who might have found rocking bridges too fragile in the past.

It all adds up to a super responsive vibrato action; and a firm, confidence-inspiring feel under the fretting hand. Every edge of the Tuffset is chamfered, and every locking screw head is flush with the saddle - we want the Tuffset to deliver in every way, including player comfort!

If you’re interested in further content, videos and updates we will be posting regularly on the Tuffset Instagram @tuffsetbridge in the run up to launch and beyond. Coming soon is a comparison video featuring the pictured 1965 Jazzmaster, comparing the Stock bridge to the Tuffset bridge, which I’ll also post on here for anyone interested.

Social Media

We’ve also set up a Tuffset Discord Server and a Tuffset Tribe Facebook Group. If you are active on these platforms, we hope you will join us for Offset related discussion and to share experiences, guitars and advice on anything Tuffset related - I think a lot of groups and servers could benefit from more of the patient, friendly forum community feel!

We’ll be posting exclusive updates in the run up to launch day and hope this community will help everyone get the very best out of their beloved Offset guitars.

https://discord.gg/c7s7CBwt

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1488324098614750



Finally a massive thank you to everyone on this forum. Without your kindness, honesty, enthusiasm and input, there’s no question none of this would be happening! Forums build very special communities that are not prey to the anonymity and “here today, gone tomorrow” organ grinder of other social media.

Cheers!
Dan