Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

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Ozone7
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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Ozone7 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:23 am

Hey gentlemen.

Sorry to start another query, but this seems to be the place.

Could I possibly ask for a sense check on what I'm considering for my Marr/AmPro Jag?

I'd like to take the Kinman BluesJag neck up to a 500k or 1M pot to open up the top as it's too rounded for me.
But as the bridge is OK as is, I was wondering if applying a 500k resistor on one side of the phase switch from the Bridge would allow a pseudo 250k pot response for the bridge in solo mode, but not in phase cancelled.

Does that work?
Here's the schematic:
Image

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Mirovox » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:28 am

I have a request, which I submit humbly and thankfully.

My pea-brain, has reached it's limits and I can't figure out a way to do this:

-Standard Jazzmaster pot & switch layout
-I have 2 coil-tapped humbuckers
-I want the regular (DPDT switch down) circuit to be double coil operation on main V & T pot
-Upper circuit with DPDT switch UP, just makes the whole guitar single coil with the Upper V & T controlling both pickups.

Basically, I just want the upper switch to engage a separate single-coil circuit

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bodhi
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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:45 am

Mirovox wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:28 am
I have a request, which I submit humbly and thankfully.

My pea-brain, has reached it's limits and I can't figure out a way to do this:

-Standard Jazzmaster pot & switch layout
-I have 2 coil-tapped humbuckers
-I want the regular (DPDT switch down) circuit to be double coil operation on main V & T pot
-Upper circuit with DPDT switch UP, just makes the whole guitar single coil with the Upper V & T controlling both pickups.

Basically, I just want the upper switch to engage a separate single-coil circuit
Ok, if I'm interpreting this correctly, you'll need a 4pdt (four pole, double throw) switch in place of the normal rhythm/lead slide switch. These are commonly available as toggle switches, but switchcraft has a variation like the standard switch: http://www.switchcraft.com/Product.aspx?ID=3295 , however I didn't check screw spacing. Might work. Personally I'm looking to use a short shaft toggle switch like in the Troy Van Leuwen JMs, but don't have a pickguard to care about... Make sure to not get a three-way one, as occasionally these are listed as "4pdt on-on-on" or "4pdt on-off-on", though to my knowledge that's actually wrong.

You'd want to wire the main stuff like this, to separate volumes and tones for up and down:

Image

Then, wire the humbuckers with individual coil taps to the rhythm/lead switch like this: https://www.thomann.de/fi/onlineexpert_ ... iring.html -- one pickup for each side of the switch.
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:55 am

Ozone7 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:23 am
Hey gentlemen.

Sorry to start another query, but this seems to be the place.

Could I possibly ask for a sense check on what I'm considering for my Marr/AmPro Jag?

I'd like to take the Kinman BluesJag neck up to a 500k or 1M pot to open up the top as it's too rounded for me.
But as the bridge is OK as is, I was wondering if applying a 500k resistor on one side of the phase switch from the Bridge would allow a pseudo 250k pot response for the bridge in solo mode, but not in phase cancelled.

Does that work?
Here's the schematic:
Image
Should kind of work like that, but can't wrap my head around the schematic to think it through. You'd want a parallel resistor between whatever becomes the bridge hot and ground. A 470k resistor is ok for 500k pots to get a reflected 250k value, you can google for a parallel resistance calculator to figure out what to use with different pots.
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Mirovox » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:37 pm

The 4P/DT is alive!

And it fits without hacking at the cavity!

Image

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:37 pm

Mirovox wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:37 pm
The 4P/DT is alive!

And it fits without hacking at the cavity!

Image
That's good to know! I'm planning a rewire of my JM that's gonna need a 3PDT slider and I was wondering if it would fit without any routing or not.
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by jonnyrocket » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

bodhi wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:16 am
jonnyrocket wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:33 am

I have found several people who have tried using these rotary switches from Free-Way and many of them told me they were quite challenging to solder given that the terminals are right next to each other.
Yeah, it's a bit fiddly. There's a variation out there with loose colored wire, but I guess you might have bought yours already...
jonnyrocket wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:33 am

I want the guitar to have the traditional modality with the lead circuit with the following positions available via the three way toggle switch:
neck
neck+bridge (in phase and parallel)
bridge

Then I would like to add a push/pull 1meg pot to be able to use the neck+bridge in series and in phase when the toggle switch is in the middle position. I guess in this case if the push/pull pot is activated it would only work on the middle position of the toggle. I'm not sure what would happen if the pot is activated and the toggle is placed either on the first or third position.

Rhythm circuit
When rhythm circuit switch is engaged I would like for the rhythm circuit to not be exclusive to the neck pickup but I would like to be able to use there three way toggle switch in order to select either the neck, bridge or neck+bridge in phase and in parallel.


Now I just need to figure out how to add one push/pull pot to the diagram in order to put both neck and bridge in series and in phase when the toggle is in the center position. It would be great if the push/pull could activate series and in phase with both the lead and the rhythm circuit. I am assuming in this way, when i'm using series with the lead circuit it would be brighter than when using both pickups in series with the rhythm circuit.
OK, good, thanks for the details, this we can work with :) The base approach would basically be to use a modified approach to what you liked earlier, just remove the switch, keeping the wire that's being indicated by the blue color:

Image

However, this will make the series switch always override what the three-way toggle switch does, no matter if you're using "Lead" or "Rhythm" circuits. The core issue with making it work like you describe is that 1) the typical JM / Gibson style three-way toggle switch doesn't have enough connection points to do other things in the middle position, so you'd need something else, and 2) the only way I've wired up the series/parallel switch in this setup requires a 3pdt switch, and the push-pull pots are 2p2t. Not sure if someone else might have a way to make it work.

But at least with the adapted wiring you can try it out to see if it's something to work with.
Hi bodhi,

I have a few more questions before I attempt wiring this. I am embedding an image with some annotations.

Image

https://imgur.com/a/1tv40co

Questions:
1. I just want to make sure that I am wiring it up correctly and not upside down on the push pull pot.

2. Did I label the pickups correctly?

3. In this wiring, the two pickups are in series when the pot is pulled right?

4. If i labeled the pickups correctly, the neck wire that connects to the switch in the push/pull pot is the ground wire right?

5. If I labeled the pickups correctly, the bridge pickup wire that connects to the switch in the push pull pot is the lead wire right?

6. Since I want to use a treble bleed mod as well, is it preferable to use the push/pull pot on the tone instead the volume?

One thing that I am confused is that in other diagrams I have seen online, the cables wired to the push/pull seems similar but inverted. Here is an example of what I mean:
https://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_jazzmaster_stb.html

Thanks for your help!

Jon

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:50 am

jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

I have a few more questions before I attempt wiring this. I am embedding an image with some annotations.

Image

https://imgur.com/a/1tv40co

Questions:
1. I just want to make sure that I am wiring it up correctly and not upside down on the push pull pot.
Cool! Nothing much will typically break unless you touch the soldering iron to a pot for a whole bunch of seconds, so not too much reason to worry about that part. But I can understand that it might be tough to go back in and fix things if everything feels complicated, but I'm positive you'll see it thruogh!
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

2. Did I label the pickups correctly?
Yes! (strictly speaking you could switch them around physically, as a wiring diagram doesn't really talk about physical layout, but what you labeled is what's intended by the image.)
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

3. In this wiring, the two pickups are in series when the pot is pulled right?
Yes, going by the wiring diagram as well as the potentiometer picture. You could wire the switch lugs the other way around (eg. in series when down), but it'd make sense for that to be the alternate option the way I think about it. I also just realised that you'll have a "no-sound" selection when the three-way switch is in the bridge position and the push-pull is in series position...
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

4. If i labeled the pickups correctly, the neck wire that connects to the switch in the push/pull pot is the ground wire right?
Yeah, in a series/parallel switching set up you need to be able to move one of the pickups' ground aruond.
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

5. If I labeled the pickups correctly, the bridge pickup wire that connects to the switch in the push pull pot is the lead wire right?
That's right.
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

6. Since I want to use a treble bleed mod as well, is it preferable to use the push/pull pot on the tone instead the volume?
It doesn't matter, whichever you prefer to be pushing and pulling. The switch parts don't connect to the variable resistance parts, so they're functionally independant from that perspective.
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

One thing that I am confused is that in other diagrams I have seen online, the cables wired to the push/pull seems similar but inverted. Here is an example of what I mean:
https://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_jazzmaster_stb.html
There are different ways to achiveve the same thing. Though with the Rothstein wiring, compared to the annotated picture we've been discussing, there is no "dead spot" on the three way toggle switch in the series position. Which might be better or worse, but it might be clearer with a completely separate switch if you want that effect, especially if you play live and need to limit potential mistake situations...
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

Thanks for your help!
No problem!
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by jonnyrocket » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:21 pm

bodhi wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:50 am
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

I have a few more questions before I attempt wiring this. I am embedding an image with some annotations.

Image

https://imgur.com/a/1tv40co

Questions:
1. I just want to make sure that I am wiring it up correctly and not upside down on the push pull pot.
Cool! Nothing much will typically break unless you touch the soldering iron to a pot for a whole bunch of seconds, so not too much reason to worry about that part. But I can understand that it might be tough to go back in and fix things if everything feels complicated, but I'm positive you'll see it thruogh!
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

2. Did I label the pickups correctly?
Yes! (strictly speaking you could switch them around physically, as a wiring diagram doesn't really talk about physical layout, but what you labeled is what's intended by the image.)
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

3. In this wiring, the two pickups are in series when the pot is pulled right?
Yes, going by the wiring diagram as well as the potentiometer picture. You could wire the switch lugs the other way around (eg. in series when down), but it'd make sense for that to be the alternate option the way I think about it. I also just realised that you'll have a "no-sound" selection when the three-way switch is in the bridge position and the push-pull is in series position...
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

4. If i labeled the pickups correctly, the neck wire that connects to the switch in the push/pull pot is the ground wire right?
Yeah, in a series/parallel switching set up you need to be able to move one of the pickups' ground aruond.
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

5. If I labeled the pickups correctly, the bridge pickup wire that connects to the switch in the push pull pot is the lead wire right?
That's right.
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

6. Since I want to use a treble bleed mod as well, is it preferable to use the push/pull pot on the tone instead the volume?
It doesn't matter, whichever you prefer to be pushing and pulling. The switch parts don't connect to the variable resistance parts, so they're functionally independant from that perspective.
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

One thing that I am confused is that in other diagrams I have seen online, the cables wired to the push/pull seems similar but inverted. Here is an example of what I mean:
https://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_jazzmaster_stb.html
There are different ways to achiveve the same thing. Though with the Rothstein wiring, compared to the annotated picture we've been discussing, there is no "dead spot" on the three way toggle switch in the series position. Which might be better or worse, but it might be clearer with a completely separate switch if you want that effect, especially if you play live and need to limit potential mistake situations...
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

Thanks for your help!
No problem!
Thanks bodhi!

One last question before I work on this. If the pickups are RW/RP, would they cancel hum when I pull the pot and engage both of them in series? They currently provide hum cancelation in the middle position of the toggle switch.

I can't wait to get working on this during the weekend!
Jon

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Jaga » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:41 pm

Very interesting thread!

I'm curious, does anyone have some ideas regarding HSS wiring?

Image

Single coils:
Neck
Middle
Bridge: North coil
Bridge: South coul

Hum cancelling options:
Bridge: series humbucker
Neck * Middle

Neck * Middle + BridgeHumb
Neck * Middle * BridgeHumb
Neck * Middle + (-BridgeHumb)
Neck * Middle * (-BridgeHumb)

Neck + BridgeS
Neck * BridgeS
Middle + BridgeN
Middle * BridgeN

Other options:
Neck + (-BridgeS)
Neck * (-BridgeS)
Middle + (-BridgeN)
Middle * (-BridgeN)

The idea is to use mustang switch to select N/M or humbucker coils simultaneously (either one of the coil or both). Thus it is possible to work with North(and/or)Middle; HBseries(and/or)Neck*Middle; South(and/or)Neck. Later the pair of selected options is processed thru the binary tree concept. However, it is not perfect, for example, parallel mode for Neck+Middle or Humbucker is not available here. The cool thing though is that most of the options are hum-cancelling and there are no dead spots.

It would be really cool to limit only to combinations that cancel hum + single coils, but not sure if it is possible. Probably that article has an answer, need to read it more carefully. I might use some rotary switch instead of tone pot if it helps. Generally I d have to use several 2-way or 3-way slide switches since I have a Jaguar.
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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:28 am

jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:21 pm
One last question before I work on this. If the pickups are RW/RP, would they cancel hum when I pull the pot and engage both of them in series? They currently provide hum cancelation in the middle position of the toggle switch.
Yes, this shouldn't be affected.
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:21 pm
I can't wait to get working on this during the weekend!
Have fun! ;)
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:35 am

Jaga wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:41 pm
I'm curious, does anyone have some ideas regarding HSS wiring?

It would be really cool to limit only to combinations that cancel hum + single coils, but not sure if it is possible. Probably that article has an answer, need to read it more carefully. I might use some rotary switch instead of tone pot if it helps. Generally I d have to use several 2-way or 3-way slide switches since I have a Jaguar.
Interesting, but I fear that the different variations are so many that you might loose track of what you have available if you end up leaving the guitar alone for a few days ;D I'd say go for it, but perhaps be prepared that essentially ultimate flexibility is not as interesting as it might sound on paper, and typically the differences can be fairly small between some options. But that just be me with preconceived opinions :whistle:
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Jaga » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:58 pm

bodhi wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:35 am
Interesting, but I fear that the different variations are so many that you might loose track
I was trying to limit myself actually! Because there might be wirings with 50+ switching options + phase for HH or HSS setup.
Check out my videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/alexeyjaga

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by jonnyrocket » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:38 am

bodhi wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:28 am
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:21 pm
One last question before I work on this. If the pickups are RW/RP, would they cancel hum when I pull the pot and engage both of them in series? They currently provide hum cancelation in the middle position of the toggle switch.
Yes, this shouldn't be affected.
jonnyrocket wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:21 pm
I can't wait to get working on this during the weekend!
Have fun! ;)
Hi bodhi, I just wired it up this weekend but it's not working. My 3-way toggle switch looks different and I just want to make sure that I wired it correctly. I'm including an image below.

https://imgur.com/a/FpUpDzH

Thanks again for your help!

Jon

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by timtam » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:27 am

jonnyrocket wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:38 am
Hi bodhi, I just wired it up this weekend but it's not working. My 3-way toggle switch looks different and I just want to make sure that I wired it correctly. I'm including an image below.

https://imgur.com/a/FpUpDzH

Thanks again for your help!

Jon
The two tabs on their own are tied together to make the output from the switch (ie whichever pickup/combination is selected). Ground (to the switch body) is the middle of the 3 tabs. The inputs to the switch are on either side of the middle ground tab.
Image

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