Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

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jonnyrocket
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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by jonnyrocket » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:35 pm

timtam wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:27 am
jonnyrocket wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:38 am
Hi bodhi, I just wired it up this weekend but it's not working. My 3-way toggle switch looks different and I just want to make sure that I wired it correctly. I'm including an image below.

https://imgur.com/a/FpUpDzH

Thanks again for your help!

Jon
The two tabs on their own are tied together to make the output from the switch (ie whichever pickup/combination is selected). Ground (to the switch body) is the middle of the 3 tabs. The inputs to the switch are on either side of the middle ground tab.
Image
Thanks timtam and bodhi!

That’s how I had wire them. I eventually figured out my mistake. I had missed a few connections on the tone pot which is where I placed the push/pull pot for Series wiring. Since I figured out the problem, I edited this message and erased some of it.

At first it worked but I had the pickups wired out of phase with each other so all positions had hum and the series wiring was less loud than each individual pickup. The sound was pretty cool though and I think I enjoy the series wiring with out of phase!

I just opened up the guitar again and switch the leads on the neck pickup and now everything works perfectly well! The guitar is much quieter, the middle position has no noise and the two pickups are in series and in phase so they sound fatter and with no noise!

Now I wonder if it's possible to use another push/pull pot to add the two pickups in series but out of phase without having to change the leads of the pickup.

I am so appreciative to all the people who helped me on this forum. You guys rock! This was my first wiring of an entering guitar in over 8 years and I was pretty rusty! I feel much more confident to start moving the electronics of my strat, mustang and teles.

cheers,
Jon

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Larkins
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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Larkins » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:39 pm

So I’ve been racking my brain this week trying to wrap my head around switches and wiring diagrams and I give up.

Currently have my mustang wired like the “5.0” schematic and want to lose the in phase/out phase options and just have series/parallel instead(while retaining the dark mode).

Is this possible?
Thanks!

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Jaga » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:46 am

Looks like there are some example of series/parallel switching using mustang switches:
https://web.archive.org/web/20171225000 ... ndex_e.htm
Check out my videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/alexeyjaga

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Larkins » Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:03 pm

I saw that, I was hoping the switch layout would be a little more conventional, Like 1 switch being Neck/Both/Bridge and the other switch being DarkMode/Series/Parallel.

I’m thinking that layout isn’t possible with the mustang sliders.

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:35 am

Larkins wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:03 pm
I saw that, I was hoping the switch layout would be a little more conventional, Like 1 switch being Neck/Both/Bridge and the other switch being DarkMode/Series/Parallel.

I’m thinking that layout isn’t possible with the mustang sliders.
Try this:

Image

I'm not quite 100% on it, but I believe it should work. Replace the orange highlight pen connections with your caps of choice. Not sure what exactly happens with both pickups on in the dark setting... This is a parallel dark switch, if you'd prefer it in series that's also possible to achieve. A dark switch is basically a capacitor in parallel with the output signal, so it might better to move it completely elsewhere in the wiring...
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:44 am

bodhi wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:35 am
Larkins wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:03 pm
I saw that, I was hoping the switch layout would be a little more conventional, Like 1 switch being Neck/Both/Bridge and the other switch being DarkMode/Series/Parallel.

I’m thinking that layout isn’t possible with the mustang sliders.
Try this:

[...]

I'm not quite 100% on it, but I believe it should work. Replace the orange highlight pen connections with your caps of choice. Not sure what exactly happens with both pickups on in the dark setting... This is a parallel dark switch, if you'd prefer it in series that's also possible to achieve. A dark switch is basically a capacitor in parallel with the output signal, so it might better to move it completely elsewhere in the wiring...
Actually, now that I wrote it out for myself, use this instead (skip the orange lines):

Image
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Larkins » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:19 am

Thanks!
I’ll give it a shot in the next few days and report back!

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Walmartyr » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:28 am

Hello! It seems I've stumbled across fellow enthusiasts, and was wondering if I could pick your brains.
I would highly appreciate if somebody could check my work and make sure that this schematic would do what I want it to do. I'm looking to swap out my Novak JM-180 with a Novak JM-WR. I'm trying to teach myself basic electronics, and I'm sure there are a lot of embarassing mistakes here...

Image


What I'm trying to achieve:
1) Coil Tap on the JM-WR going to the top circuit, which only engages one pot for Dial-a-Tap: fully tapped at 0, fully untapped at 10.
2) Rhythm Pot for Neck Pickup (wired like original Rhythm Circuit), bypassed at 10 and full on at 0. (not super crucial, but would be nice)
3) Ability to access tapped humbucker plus Neck pickup in the middle position on the 3-way switch.

Also, half of the top DPDT switch is unused. Do you see any recommendations on how to utilize it?


Here's a copy without drawn wires, if desired:
https://shared-assets.adobe.com/link/4c ... b2c667c315
Last edited by Walmartyr on Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Jaga » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:03 pm

Larkins wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:03 pm
I saw that, I was hoping the switch layout would be a little more conventional, Like 1 switch being Neck/Both/Bridge and the other switch being DarkMode/Series/Parallel.

I’m thinking that layout isn’t possible with the mustang sliders.
There is also the following possibility:

Image

The idea is that the left switch is series/parallel switch where parallel mode overwrites the right switch. The left switch could be changed to the mustang switch and, I think, the dark mode could be added to series or parallel mode.

It is not the perfect solution in terms there will be hanging from hot coils in single coil position, but I haven't figured out how to make it better. Probably, it is possible somehow to use unused pole of the right switch.
Check out my videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/alexeyjaga

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:47 am

Walmartyr wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:28 am
Hello! It seems I've stumbled across fellow enthusiasts, and was wondering if I could pick your brains.
I would highly appreciate if somebody could check my work and make sure that this schematic would do what I want it to do. I'm looking to swap out my Novak JM-180 with a Novak JM-WR. I'm trying to teach myself basic electronics, and I'm sure there are a lot of embarassing mistakes here...

Image


What I'm trying to achieve:
1) Coil Tap on the JM-WR going to the top circuit, which only engages one pot for Dial-a-Tap: fully tapped at 0, fully untapped at 10.
2) Rhythm Pot for Neck Pickup (wired like original Rhythm Circuit), bypassed at 10 and full on at 0. (not super crucial, but would be nice)
3) Ability to access tapped humbucker plus Neck pickup in the middle position on the 3-way switch.

Also, half of the top DPDT switch is unused. Do you see any recommendations on how to utilize it?


Here's a copy without drawn wires, if desired:
https://shared-assets.adobe.com/link/4c ... b2c667c315
I find this a bit confusing, but I think I've worked my way through it. You haven't drawn out a ground connection from the jack anywhere else than the back of the tone pot, so for that to work there needs to be some kind of conductive material on the back of the pickguard (as it were) to connect to the rest of the grounds, which are connected to the back of the volume pot. If that's there, then we can get past the gate. Or then you intended to wire the jack negative to the back of both pots and the rest of the groun wire to the pots?

As for the wiring, this needs a bit of explaining and some rework.

Master Tone: this works.

Master volume: with the suggested wiring, this would do basically nothing. You need to move the wire that connects the volume and the output jack to come from the middle potentiometer lug instead of off to one side, so the signal is forced through the potentiometer. Also I believe audio instead of linear pots should work better, especially once you have a treble bleed, but you'll need to test this to see what you like.

Bright switch that wasn't mentioned: should work, you should probably check the value for the capacitor once you're good with the rest of the wiring.

As for the rest, I'd need a bit of clarification. If you'd wire the pickups directly to the selector I think we should have a working guitar with the above fixes.

Bridge pickup: What does the third wire of the Novak JM-WR do (purple)? Most humbuckers either have two wires or four wires, but three would typically mean that you might not be able to do other things than to get the full output and then some kind of half-output, or single coil of a humbucker or the like. Meaning that wiring this to the dpdt toggle switch means you'll always do something, as it goes to ground all of the time, through a pot or not. Which means that if wired like this you essentially would always only get the "single coil" sound if that's what it does, or then something to that extent through the pot in the other position.

You say it's a coil tap, but does that mean that the tap should be connected to ground or become the tapped hot lead?

Neck pickup: The hot out from the neck position here goes to a pot beside the dpdt toggle switch. As wired like this I believe it should act like a separate volume pot only for the neck pickup, with a hardwired low pass filter like a gretsch style mud switch (eg. the same thing you roll in and out with a tone pot). Might be a cool sound, but might not be what you had in mind? (I really like the mud switches on neck filtertrons, haven't tried on JM pickups).

Stick to it, I think we can work this out! :)
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Walmartyr » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:27 am

Hi u/bodhi! Thank you for taking your time to go through the schematic and to respond so thoughtfully. I love Blake Mills' guitar playing style, I noticed you have a guitar build like his in your signature.

Image

So I did some changes on the wiring, and added measured the pickup values as well. Sorry about throwing you for a loop with the strangle switch! I already had that wired up in my current JM, so I decided to draw it in.

Main changes:
1) Bridge Pickup goes to an always on, no load, Dial-A-Tap Pot which hopefully would give me full, unaltered tone humbucker at 10 and single coil at 0.
2) Neck Pickup goes to DPDT, then No Load Dark Tone Pot, which doesn't affect tone at 10 and goes dark from 9.9 - 0.
3) In other position on DPDT, the Neck pickup runs through a resistor which brings it down to around 5k ohms, to balance out with the bridge single coil in the middle position on the 3 way switch.

Bridge pickup: What does the third wire of the Novak JM-WR do (purple)?
I still am not sure, but maybe by telling you the measurements you'll know what it does.
Orange: 10.41k
Purple: 5.2k
Orange+Purple on Positive Multimeter Cable : 5.2k
You say it's a coil tap, but does that mean that the tap should be connected to ground or become the tapped hot lead?
Based on these measurements, I think the tap should be connected to ground for it to be in single coil mode, and that the orange cable gives me the humbucker.


Thank you so much for your guidance, and I hope this works. Your encouragement is really appreciated!

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:56 pm

Walmartyr wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:27 am
Hi u/bodhi! Thank you for taking your time to go through the schematic and to respond so thoughtfully. I love Blake Mills' guitar playing style, I noticed you have a guitar build like his in your signature.

Image

So I did some changes on the wiring, and added measured the pickup values as well. Sorry about throwing you for a loop with the strangle switch! I already had that wired up in my current JM, so I decided to draw it in.

Main changes:
1) Bridge Pickup goes to an always on, no load, Dial-A-Tap Pot which hopefully would give me full, unaltered tone humbucker at 10 and single coil at 0.
2) Neck Pickup goes to DPDT, then No Load Dark Tone Pot, which doesn't affect tone at 10 and goes dark from 9.9 - 0.
3) In other position on DPDT, the Neck pickup runs through a resistor which brings it down to around 5k ohms, to balance out with the bridge single coil in the middle position on the 3 way switch.
Are you sure you drew out the updated picture correctly?

The way the toggle switch is wired to the neck hot wire, I would expect no sound in the neck position of the pickup selector switch, as I can't find a way for the purple wire to the selector switch to be in contact with the green wire from the pickup. But you say that there's some effect from the toggle and pot, so I guess something's going on.

Regarding the balance resistor, the value should probably be selectedd by ear rather than to match a resistance value, as those don't really reflect output levels meaningfully. It's also already around 5k ;) You can use a temporary volume pot to find an appropriate value, and then measure the resistance of that for the resistor itself, if you did't already do that.
Walmartyr wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:27 am
Bridge pickup: What does the third wire of the Novak JM-WR do (purple)?
I still am not sure, but maybe by telling you the measurements you'll know what it does.
Orange: 10.41k
Purple: 5.2k
Orange+Purple on Positive Multimeter Cable : 5.2k
You say it's a coil tap, but does that mean that the tap should be connected to ground or become the tapped hot lead?
Based on these measurements, I think the tap should be connected to ground for it to be in single coil mode, and that the orange cable gives me the humbucker.

Thank you so much for your guidance, and I hope this works. Your encouragement is really appreciated!
No worries, let's see where we end up :)

It seems the third wire is a coil tap half way through the wind, so that could essentially select either of the coils if you wire ground-to-purple, or purple-to-orange. I think what you're trying to achieve is a "spin-a-split" wiring, which is described well enough here: https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/late ... -split-mod --- the assumption being that the third wire is basically the red and the white wire in the Duncan picture already connected together. Which it pretty much has to be, or then I can't at least immediately think of an alternative. Don't know what the pot value would do in this equation, if you have acceess to some higher value ones it might be interesting to see what the effect is. Please report back :)
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Walmartyr » Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:04 pm

bodhi wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:56 pm
Are you sure you drew out the updated picture correctly?
Hello bodhi!

Again, thank you for the continued correspondence. I thought I had it wired fine and I went over it a few days and then realized that I had been basing the DPDT off of this kind of connector:

Image

Here's the updated change! Hope this makes a little more sense now.

Image
bodhi wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:56 pm
It's also already around 5k ;) You can use a temporary volume pot to find an appropriate value, and then measure the resistance of that for the resistor itself, if you did't already do that.
That's a great trick and I'll try that! My JM is still not touched yet, since I want to plan everything out before opening it. That way, I can play it for the max amount of time :jacked:

bodhi wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:56 pm
Don't know what the pot value would do in this equation, if you have acceess to some higher value ones it might be interesting to see what the effect is. Please report back :)
That's an interesting idea. I think I have some 500Ks and some 1Ms. However, the folks in the comments and on other sites recommend 100K for this value. I wonder what reducing the value would do... I have some 1K and 50k pots too.

Just need to wait on a few pots in the mail and we're off to the races! If everything seems fine that is.

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by bodhi » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:29 pm

Walmartyr wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:04 pm
bodhi wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:56 pm
Are you sure you drew out the updated picture correctly?
Again, thank you for the continued correspondence. I thought I had it wired fine and I went over it a few days and then realized that I had been basing the DPDT off of this kind of connector:

Image
Okay, makes sense, that's what's called a 3pdt switch, which has three separate positions, of which that's the middle one. Won't do anything useful with this wiring setup, so stick with the two-position one ;)
Walmartyr wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:04 pm
Here's the updated change! Hope this makes a little more sense now.

Image
Yeah, I think we might be good to go, nothing pops out at least at the moment.
Walmartyr wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:04 pm
bodhi wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:56 pm
It's also already around 5k ;) You can use a temporary volume pot to find an appropriate value, and then measure the resistance of that for the resistor itself, if you did't already do that.
That's a great trick and I'll try that! My JM is still not touched yet, since I want to plan everything out before opening it. That way, I can play it for the max amount of time :jacked:
You can just take some wires and have them pop out from behind the pickguard with a pot dangling if you'd like. It might be a bit noisier in comparison, but not necessarily by that much.
Walmartyr wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:04 pm
bodhi wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:56 pm
Don't know what the pot value would do in this equation, if you have acceess to some higher value ones it might be interesting to see what the effect is. Please report back :)
That's an interesting idea. I think I have some 500Ks and some 1Ms. However, the folks in the comments and on other sites recommend 100K for this value. I wonder what reducing the value would do... I have some 1K and 50k pots too.

Just need to wait on a few pots in the mail and we're off to the races! If everything seems fine that is.
Yeah, just keep in mind that you can always stop along the way to check that stuff is working. I like to minimally make sure that things are electrically connected with a multimeter before I start screwing pickguards and restringing, tends to keep the irritating stuff somewhat manageable.
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

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