JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

[AcrylicSuperman]

I love this thread, it's one of the reasons I signed up here! I built a Jag-stang prototype replica using a MIM Jag-stang body with a Warmoth neck. Kudos to everyone involved for putting this all together.

Thank you. I greatly appreciate it. Hopefully, we will have more to add soon.

[Amon 7.L]

I love this thread, it's one of the reasons I signed up here! I built a Jag-stang prototype replica using a MIM Jag-stang body with a Warmoth neck. Kudos to everyone involved for putting this all together.

Thank you so much, Noah. It means a lot to me.
As AcrylicSuperman already said, with a bit of luck we might have an update soon so, stick around.

Btw: welcome onboard!

[JVG]

I don’t think I’ve written in this thread, although i’ve read a decent chunk of it. The level of detail goes well beyond my fairly superficial interest level in Cobain’s gear, and I admire the research work that has gone into it. A true labour of love - well done.

Regarding the topic of misinformation, i recently heard Rick Beato use the term ‘repeaters’ to describe forum folks who repost info they have read, without any awareness of its correctness. (By the way, I have mixed feelings about Beato, and maybe he got the word from somewhere else. Also, i realise the irony of me repeating the term repeater!)

In the context of correcting the poor information being circulated (for over 30 years) about Cobain’s guitars, don’t give up hope. Slowly more and more people will read this thread and the info will seep into other forums. It will take time, of course.

I believe we are now in an age where more people are keen to challenge internet ‘myths’, and search for information that can be verified, either by properly controlled experiments, or by seeking out original certified documentation.

For example, in the pedal world for many years the repeaters said that true bypass was always best because it didn’t ‘suck your tone’. More recently there has been a growing number of people accepting that buffered is often as good, and sometimes better (admittedly pedal technology has also changed during this time).

On guitars, for years the repeaters talked about nitro paint being better for a guitar’s tone because it ‘let the wood breathe’, and now this has been debunked.

The myths surrounding particular musician’s equipment are a lot more specialised, and tend to be gripped with passion in many cases. Especially when the musician is dead. But that’s not to say they can’t be corrected with good research such as contained in this thread.

What i have just said is not news to people on OSG, who tend to be more investigative and open minded than most, but i think it is worth, errr….repeating.

[AcrylicSuperman]

I don’t think I’ve written in this thread, although i’ve read a decent chunk of it. The level of detail goes well beyond my fairly superficial interest level in Cobain’s gear, and I admire the research work that has gone into it. A true labour of love - well done.

Regarding the topic of misinformation, i recently heard Rick Beato use the term ‘repeaters’ to describe forum folks who repost info they have read, without any awareness of its correctness. (By the way, I have mixed feelings about Beato, and maybe he got the word from somewhere else. Also, i realise the irony of me repeating the term repeater!)

In the context of correcting the poor information being circulated (for over 30 years) about Cobain’s guitars, don’t give up hope. Slowly more and more people will read this thread and the info will seep into other forums. It will take time, of course.

I believe we are now in an age where more people are keen to challenge internet ‘myths’, and search for information that can be verified, either by properly controlled experiments, or by seeking out original certified documentation.

For example, in the pedal world for many years the repeaters said that true bypass was always best because it didn’t ‘suck your tone’. More recently there has been a growing number of people accepting that buffered is often as good, and sometimes better (admittedly pedal technology has also changed during this time).

On guitars, for years the repeaters talked about nitro paint being better for a guitar’s tone because it ‘let the wood breathe’, and now this has been debunked.

The myths surrounding particular musician’s equipment are a lot more specialised, and tend to be gripped with passion in many cases. Especially when the musician is dead. But that’s not to say they can’t be corrected with good research such as contained in this thread.

What i have just said is not news to people on OSG, who tend to be more investigative and open minded than most, but i think it is worth, errr….repeating.

100% agree with you.

Repeaters is probably the perfect term.

Thank you for reading a decent chunk of this thread. I hope we've been able to give you some information on some of your favorite instruments of Kurt's.

[Geetarfreek82]

I love this thread, it's one of the reasons I signed up here! I built a Jag-stang prototype replica using a MIM Jag-stang body with a Warmoth neck. Kudos to everyone involved for putting this all together.

Thank you so much, Noah. It means a lot to me.
As AcrylicSuperman already said, with a bit of luck we might have an update soon so, stick around.

Btw: welcome onboard!

I just wanted to add that I worked as a "boutique" pickup winder for about a decade. I concur with what was previously stated; potting a humbucker in lacquer would just be a terrible idea. It would be severely messy (it would harden on the bobbin and look like crap) and it wouldn't even be that great for dampening microphonics. Wax potting would be leagues better for both purposes. I think that "fact" was also a bit of misinformation/misremembering .

[AcrylicSuperman]

I love this thread, it's one of the reasons I signed up here! I built a Jag-stang prototype replica using a MIM Jag-stang body with a Warmoth neck. Kudos to everyone involved for putting this all together.

Thank you so much, Noah. It means a lot to me.
As AcrylicSuperman already said, with a bit of luck we might have an update soon so, stick around.

Btw: welcome onboard!

I just wanted to add that I worked as a "boutique" pickup winder for about a decade. I concur with what was previously stated; potting a humbucker in lacquer would just be a terrible idea. It would be severely messy (it would harden on the bobbin and look like crap) and it wouldn't even be that great for dampening microphonics. Wax potting would be leagues better for both purposes. I think that "fact" was also a bit of misinformation/misremembering .

It very well may be. We've come across a few areas where Larry hasn't been 100%. We do know who has the original order form for the pickup though and if I am ever granted the opportunity to speak with them, i will share it with the rest of you. Keep in mind though, Larry wasn't a pickup winder himself. In fact, he had some issues in his hands according to those that knew him during his time at Fender. So he very well may mean wax potting. It's common at SD.

I do agree with you, though. As far as we know, the humbucker hasn't really aged. If it were lacquer potted, like early single coils, it would be showing signs on the surface and possible chipping off the bobbin and such. We also know that it's not squealy or microphonic and that implies that it is potted to some degree. Some day, we'll get some answers to that. It is on my to do list.

[FenderGuy312]

My favorite thread on OSG, I’ve been checking every week or so for an update, very pumped for some new info. Thanks for your awesome work!

[AcrylicSuperman]

My favorite thread on OSG, I’ve been checking every week or so for an update, very pumped for some new info. Thanks for your awesome work!

Thank you! I was granted access to Kurt's Competition Mustang on Thursday, and will have access to it again either Monday or Tuesday. Amon and I are working on the data behind the scenes and comparing between all possible Jagstang necks, from production models to the prototypes to the 69 mustangs themselves.

What I can tell you for sure is that "Kurt's favorite neck", as labeled on the original production runs, isn't the '69 Competition model. So for those that have been hanging on to that nugget for 30 years, I'm sorry to shatter that illusion.

But more will come soon. Can't give days, weeks or months, but very soon. Keep checking back.

Oh and as an Edit: to any Americans viewing, please, do Amon and I a favor, whether you are a fan or not, this season, tune into an Indianapolos Colts football game. If we all did that, it would be an ultimate OSG thank you to Jim Irsay, Larry Hall and Jake Sheff for allowing us access to the instrument.

[Amon 7.L]

My favorite thread on OSG, I’ve been checking every week or so for an update, very pumped for some new info. Thanks for your awesome work!

Our pleasure, gentleman!
Much appreciated.

Thank you! I was granted access to Kurt's Competition Mustang on Thursday, and will have access to it again either Monday or Tuesday. Amon and I are working on the data behind the scenes and comparing between all possible Jagstang necks, from production models to the prototypes to the 69 mustangs themselves.

Am-on it, right now

[AcrylicSuperman]

My favorite thread on OSG, I’ve been checking every week or so for an update, very pumped for some new info. Thanks for your awesome work!

Our pleasure, gentleman!
Much appreciated.

Thank you! I was granted access to Kurt's Competition Mustang on Thursday, and will have access to it again either Monday or Tuesday. Amon and I are working on the data behind the scenes and comparing between all possible Jagstang necks, from production models to the prototypes to the 69 mustangs themselves.

Am-on it, right now

I see what you did there. Lol

[letterstoboddah]

this thread is so good! the detail everyone is gettin into is so deep i am amazed! it is going to take me a very long time to read it all

[letterstoboddah]

it is making me look even harder at the small details in my own jagstang. but now I know I should maybe type it jag-stang¿ with the dash

[Fiddy]

it is making me look even harder at the small details in my own jagstang. but now I know I should maybe type it jag-stang¿ with the dash

I'd be tackling that upside down question mark first

[letterstoboddah]

im sorry my english is not so good my mother is spanish speaking and i was taught this way ¿

[AcrylicSuperman]

Glad you're enjoying the thread.

Might as well update this and let you all know that I got Jim Irsay to agree to allow measurements to be taken of Kurt's Compstang. This has been done by Jake Sheff, who was a former Smithsonian employee. The situation was a delicate one. We got all requested measurements except for one crucial one, which we are looking to rectify via other means. The guitar still has Kurt's strings on it and they can not be disturbed for the last measurement required. The guitar also frequently moves to various displays and exhibits, so we are working on weird time schedules as well. But as soon as we get it finalized, you'll all know about it. Until then, Jag-Stangiacs.

-AS