JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

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AcrylicSuperman
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:25 am

Found this in my notes. :)

Image

This was for the production model. The original wiring was on/off/on and on/off/phase. I am no wiring expert. In fact, i am pretty dumb when it comes to this subject but even the production model wasn't wired like a traditional mustang.

Image

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:58 am

FenderBob wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:43 am
Really nice work you did. Fascinating Build! :)

Did you ever consider doing the body contours? arm / belly....like the warmoth jagstang bodies.

My have missed it, what color you going for?
Thank you, FenderBob. I'm glad you're enjoying it :)

This guitar is supposed to be a replica so, no contours are involved.
Frankly, the body is so small and the upper cutout is so close to the pickguard that I don't even feel the need of having some back sculpting that would also need to be very shallow in order to avoid the route for the switches.
The arm contour could be indeed a cozy touch but, in a stand-up position my arm is never close to that area, even sitting in a chair it doesn't bother me at all... as long as you don't play on the couch. In said case the lower bout pisses me off. It pushes the guitar deep in my armpit and I feel like I want to carve the entire body as if it were SG-thin.

Colour choice.. Well, the prototype has been labled as "sonic blue" so I think I'm gonna stick to it.
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:25 am
I came across this in my notes last night. :)

Image
Thanks AcrylicSuperman. You've beaten me to it with this. I had this diagram at my disposal and I was going to use it in the next chapters for the forensic body outlines comparison but you've been precious for I didn't pay attention to the fact that it sports the wiring schematic :fp:
Thank god there's helping people here ;D

Ritual P.S.:
I've spotted another peculiar thing about the prototype that differs from the production model.
It was there all of this time, just in front of me. All of those hours.. then... 1, 2.. 3
Image
1, 2..3.
it's 3.
But I want to play a game with you. It's right there... Com'on guys.. This is my Easter Egg!

(a hint.. stare at the pickguard :ph34r: )
Last edited by Amon 7.L on Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:08 pm

Three pickguard screws at the top?

Edit: you can see all screw holes in this photo.

Image

Edit 2: I'll throw in the red prototype for comparison for those who have a hard time noticing it.

Image

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:28 pm

Eagle eye you.
Yessir. Only 3 screws on top.
I never bothered checking the top of the pickguard. All my brain focus was on the lower guitar body and never cared to give it a better inspection.. "afterall.. it's just a STANDARD Mustang pickguard with a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT shape on the bottom" :fp:
We should get in touch with the guy who perfectly replicated Van Halen's guitar by just using pics as a reference.. He would do the job before I could even tell him "well, the only ones I like in guitars are the competition stripes"

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:56 pm

Amon 7.L wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:28 pm
Eagle eye you.
Yessir. Only 3 screws on top.
I never bothered checking the top of the pickguard. All my brain focus was on the lower guitar body and never cared to give it a better inspection.. "afterall.. it's just a STANDARD Mustang pickguard with a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT shape on the bottom" :fp:
We should get in touch with the guy who perfectly replicated Van Halen's guitar by just using pics as a reference.. He would do the job before I could even tell him "well, the only ones I like in guitars are the competition stripes"
I dont know if your computer skills could tell you otherwise, but it looks to me like your pickguard template could still work. To my eyes, the screws seem to be in the same exact locations. It just looks like you would have to leave out the two screws immediately to the left and the right of the top middle screw.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:01 pm

AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:56 pm
Amon 7.L wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:28 pm
Eagle eye you.
Yessir. Only 3 screws on top.
I never bothered checking the top of the pickguard. All my brain focus was on the lower guitar body and never cared to give it a better inspection.. "afterall.. it's just a STANDARD Mustang pickguard with a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT shape on the bottom" :fp:
We should get in touch with the guy who perfectly replicated Van Halen's guitar by just using pics as a reference.. He would do the job before I could even tell him "well, the only ones I like in guitars are the competition stripes"
I dont know if your computer skills could tell you otherwise, but it looks to me like your pickguard template could still work. To my eyes, the screws seem to be in the same exact locations. It just looks like you would have to leave out the two screws immediately to the left and the right of the top middle screw.
Just to give you an idea of what this project is on my CAD board.. Trust me, I've got all kinds of revision's tweaks using all the better pics I've gathered online, then moving onto photoshop and then 3d cad modelling to sort out which version fits said references from different angles. It's proving to be very difficoult, I can tell you that.
Take a look at this madness:
Image
From left to right you see from the production model up to my latest revision (#10 so far, doing tests)
Image
This is just a sample to give you an idea that changes are subtle but definitely there and some tweaks look optically matching up until you go overlapping things out. If you don't have a picky eye, each one would be "as close as you can get" with this limited references
Image

I did a test using a straight mustang lower horn as I thought fender would have done at the early stages but, believe me, it doesn't match. The lower horn is a completely different thing.
This last pic -out of many other more I did- will give a deeper insight.
Image

In short, no matter how much you want it to be "just a mustang lower horn with a bit of jaguarish outline".. It's not.
I'm now 90+ % sure that it's a complete redrawn. Even the snapshot taken from R.E.M. "Let me in" video close-up (which is by far the highest quality pic available and also the less distorted by perspective) confirmed my hypothesis.

Production model has been tweaked A LOT and is close to match a Mustang in regard of the general lower horn area.
Prototype has this peculiarities:
1) Much fatter butt;
2) the lower horn is different and longer than a Mustang counterpart of things like 10ish mm;
3) the offset between upper and lower cutaway is diffent from production model;
4) the metal control plate is not in a standard mustang angle, it actually angles down towards the lower bum;
5) the pickguard perfectly mirrors the geometry of the lower horn (production doesn't, it's as clear as the midday sun);
6) the butt is roundier and fatter in the control plate area;
7) upper side of the pickguard has only 3 screws VS standard 5 you have in both mustang and production JS siblings.

I most certainly forgot something but.. it will come out, sooner or later.

EDIT:
8 ) of course, the upper horn is another devil that differs from production.

EDIT-part deux:
9) plain white pickguard (1 ply or 3?) for prototype, white perloid for production.
Last edited by Amon 7.L on Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:33 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:43 pm

Yeah, you are right. It really isn't just those two shapes slapped together.

Your revisions are definitely looking close to the real deal. It looks tedious, but really, it is coming together quite nicely.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:04 pm

Double post. deleted
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:07 pm

Welcome back.

Before proceeding with this new update, I thought I might as well get a family pic of these babies: A Mustang 69RI (not a KC signature, it's just modded), my Jag-stang done right (as per famous sketch), and the current Jag-stang prototype-ish:
Image
Image

It's incredible how they're basically a Mustang as a crude structure and yet they feel so different from each-other. Of course they have different pu's and each one sports a different bridge and general set-up but, heck.. they're nothing alike.

As I'm done with posting a recap of what this project has dealt with since his inception in July 2017, I can officialy say: We're at now-now.

The prototype incarnated in the above picture is my Rev. 04 (and it needs a new pickguard, because the one shown is a temporary test as well) and since that body was cut I continuously worked on further tweaks.

Now at rev. 11 I think I'm almost there and I'd like to ask your opinion about it. My main work was on the entire lower horn & pickguard shape and the crucial inner lower waist silhouette. Those are my main concerns and what to look at in this comparison layouts:
exhibit A:
Image
exhibit B:
Image
exhibit C:
Image

As all the pictures I've used for reference display all sorts of optical distortion due to perspective and god knows how many alteration from video aspect ratio, it's hard to find two similar picture of the same detail, therefore I've used lights & shadows as a safest guide. This 3D render is what has the highest matching rate.

By looking at those 3 images, the upper horn is what I can clearly see the need of further tweaking,it looks a bit skinny and blunt in most pics but, as I said.. using more picture frames out of the same concert video (in order to have the same frame rate/random distortion), it seems to actually be right on the spot, just a wee-bee fatter on the very horn's apex. I'd like to hear your opinion:
exhibit D:
Image

I have a gentle request to ask you, guys.. If you have a jag-stang at your disposal, do you mind sharing this details? I'd need these:

1) tracing of the pickguard. I'd like to check the angle where the control plates mates it is. It seems to be different from a mustang's, so.. i'd like to see how it shifts from the standard location;
2) body roundover radius. (in this CAD Render I've used a 9.5mm radii whilst my actual body is something like 7.5mm).

Thanks heaps in advance.
Cheers :)
Last edited by Amon 7.L on Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:29 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by FenderBob » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:56 pm

I have an original pickguard I could scan in a copier and sent you a to scale pdf. and I have a beat up body..but am not a builder and not sure how to get you the body roundover measurement?

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:43 pm

Honestly, I'm not sure how much closer you can get without having an actual tracing from Peter Buck.

Wish I had a production Jagstang to help you out. I unfortunately was never able to buy a production model.

But genuinely, it does look pretty accurate. I do see your point about the round overs though. They seem too steep on the renders. There are definitely places on Kurt's that seems like it really shallow. There are also places where it looks right. Hard to judge.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:51 am

FenderBob wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:56 pm
I have an original pickguard I could scan in a copier and sent you a to scale pdf. and I have a beat up body..but am not a builder and not sure how to get you the body roundover measurement?
That trace would be a lot of help if you don't mind the hassle, I appreciate it.
In order to measure a round corner you can just use any sort of straight vertical edge butted against the guitar profile and then, by using another straight edge you can mark where the roundover stops. Measure that segment and the job's done.
Something like this:
Image

I guess you can even use this corner-radius chart.pdf, and see which one is the closest match:
http://www.labelkingcorp.com/wp-content ... -chart.pdf

Thank you lots, FenderBob

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:12 am

AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:43 pm
Honestly, I'm not sure how much closer you can get without having an actual tracing from Peter Buck.

Wish I had a production Jagstang to help you out. I unfortunately was never able to buy a production model.

But genuinely, it does look pretty accurate. I do see your point about the round overs though. They seem too steep on the renders. There are definitely places on Kurt's that seems like it really shallow. There are also places where it looks right. Hard to judge.
Yup, as far as going now for the tiniest adjustments here and there, I don't see how can I go any further with this. Each revision seem to match from one angle and look off from other perspective to higher/lower degree, so.. :squint:
The 9.5mm render's radius has been taken by measurements off the "let me in" video snapshot close-up and criss-crossing it with other light/shadow references, so.. on plain numbers it should be trusty and close enough. On the other hand, the solid body with 7.5mm also looks like being compatible with the general proportion.. Shit, it's proving being mental. :fp:

If Peter Buck is not reachable, and if someone has a way to contact'em, the other guys to reach out for are Mike Mills and Michael Stipe. I mean.. they might see each other once in a while, right? :ph34r:

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:20 am

Amon 7.L wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:12 am
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:43 pm
Honestly, I'm not sure how much closer you can get without having an actual tracing from Peter Buck.

Wish I had a production Jagstang to help you out. I unfortunately was never able to buy a production model.

But genuinely, it does look pretty accurate. I do see your point about the round overs though. They seem too steep on the renders. There are definitely places on Kurt's that seems like it really shallow. There are also places where it looks right. Hard to judge.
Yup, as far as going now for the tiniest adjustments here and there, I don't see how can I go any further with this. Each revision seem to match from one angle and look off from other perspective to higher/lower degree, so.. :squint:
The 9.5mm render's radius has been taken by measurements off the "let me in" video snapshot close-up and criss-crossing it with other light/shadow references, so.. on plain numbers it should be trusty and close enough. On the other hand, the solid body with 7.5mm also looks like being compatible with the general proportion.. Shit, it's proving being mental. :fp:

If Peter Buck is not reachable, and if someone has a way to contact'em, the other guys to reach out for are Mike Mills and Michael Stipe. I mean.. they might see each other once in a while, right? :ph34r:
Without knowing the guy, there seems to be one means of contact we can try and that happens to be the R.E.M. fan club, R.E.M. HQ.

They have a listed address for fan mail. They also.ask that if you send something to a member of R.E.M.,.you should also send a pre paid, self addressed envelope with your mail so that they can respond. I do not known the success rate of reaching them with that address, but I imagine that the worst Peter could do is say no or ignore it completely.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:50 am

AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:20 am
Without knowing the guy, there seems to be one means of contact we can try and that happens to be the R.E.M. fan club, R.E.M. HQ.

They have a listed address for fan mail. They also.ask that if you send something to a member of R.E.M.,.you should also send a pre paid, self addressed envelope with your mail so that they can respond. I do not known the success rate of reaching them with that address, but I imagine that the worst Peter could do is say no or ignore it completely.
I guess it's worth a shot, what do you think? Do you want to try and see if he replies?

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