JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Talk about modding or building your own guitar from scratch.
Post Reply
User avatar
CROSS_guitars
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:52 am
Location: Thornbury Melbourne

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by CROSS_guitars » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:03 pm

Okay.
I had another crack at it, this time using the scale template.
I decided to go with just the pencil tracing as it's more accurate than vectorizing it.
I matched it up pretty well despite the slight amount of scanner distortion.

Note, the neck heel is incomplete. This is due to the fact I originally cut two templates for the body. The other tracing had
the heel shape, but I can't find that.
The heel length on any Fender neck pocket is usually 3" if that helps.

I also made a few bodies from this template so there is a bit of wear in the cavities where the router bit touched it.

Image

User avatar
Amon 7.L
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:45 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:17 am

CROSS_guitars wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:03 pm
Okay.
I had another crack at it, this time using the scale template.
I decided to go with just the pencil tracing as it's more accurate than vectorizing it.
I matched it up pretty well despite the slight amount of scanner distortion.

Note, the neck heel is incomplete. This is due to the fact I originally cut two templates for the body. The other tracing had
the heel shape, but I can't find that.
The heel length on any Fender neck pocket is usually 3" if that helps.

I also made a few bodies from this template so there is a bit of wear in the cavities where the router bit touched it.
Thanks for this second crack, I managed to work on it and I can already say that one thing in this latest tracing is a much better match to my data.
PM sent.

User avatar
jack static
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:04 pm

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by jack static » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:40 pm

This has been a fascinating thread, and I just have a couple things to share. First off, a photo revelation that will change the entire game - the original Jag-Stang only had 19 frets!

Image

Okay, just kidding. I remembered that there was a photo from the "Kenneth" video shoot printed in the January '95 issue of Guitar World. Unfortunately some of it just disappears in the fold of the magazine. I apologize if it was one of the many ghosted photos once printed here, but hopefully it's worth seeing. It confirms at least one thing - it still had one string tree for the video shoot, so the second was certainly added by R.E.M., likely when they decided to use it every night for a year-long tour.

(that pic is actually pretty high resolution if you want to open it in a new window)

On another note, I created the original Kurt Cobain Equipment Guide in 1996, and in December of that year I was very surprised to receive a package from Earnie Bailey. It was 19 pages of handwritten, detailed notes on every single guitar, amp, and effect I had listed on the site, plus a whole bunch that were never used live or photographed! It was amazing to receive as a 14-year-old kid, he really went above and beyond writing all of that stuff and it was very exciting to have so much new information, most of which I incorporated into the site (which I think I stopped maintaining around '98 or so, as another KC EQ site was evolving its design and I became focused on my Sonic Youth resources).

I don't know if this helps at all, it's probably all known, but here was what Earnie had to say about the Jag-Stang:

"This is a touchy subject, but here goes. I asked Kurt why he didn't have Fender do the contours for the arm and the stomach. He told me he totally forgot about them when he sent the unfinished prototype back for painting. We also discussed reshaping the body a little to give it more of a traditional Fender look. I told Mark Wittenberg at Fender about these changes after Kurt died. (also, the fixed bridge) He was interested in these changes, as Fender was thinking about marketing the Jag-Stang. Unfortunately Mark passed away also, and the Jag-Stang was released in the same form as what Kurt had received. I think this guitar had the potential to be a classic instrument but due to the circumstance, became more of a collectors piece. I think they made him a red one but I don't think he ever got it. He very rarely played the Jag Stang."

Since the In Utero era Stangs have also been a hot topic in this thread, here's what he had to say about them:

Fiesta Red Mustang - "We got this just before 1st Roseland show. Began with tortoise shell P.G. then I replaced it w/ pearloid P.G. from Chandler. This was the first Mustang I routed for a full size Duncan J.B. Kurt later wanted all of them (except [competition stang]) cut out for these. I think this got black P.U.'s with the pearloid P.G. I'm not sure though. This guitar + 3 sonic (daphne?) blues were the 4 "In Utero" Mustangs. They were totally stock Japanese left Mustangs. Fender shipped these as-is, trust me. They had to be cut for heavy strings (10-52 D. Markley - the red pack), necks shimmed for better bridge angle + Gotoh tune o matic bridges (from Stewart-MacDonald) installed. Tail pieces I modified by removing the 2 springs + adding washers (3) to the posts beneath the bridge plate, locking it down to the plate. [he has drawn a detailed diagram to illustrate this] This made it solid like a stop tail piece. He never used the vibrato bar. I also flipped the tailpiece-bar around so the strings (ball-ends) would fit in the recesses."

Sonic Blue Mustang - "Sorry this was a very stock Japanese Mustang. These were, I'm sure, the first lefty's Japan made. Maybe that is what Fender is referring to. [this would be in reference to something on my site, not sure what] There were 2 blues ones on tour. The third was left at Kurt's home + was never modified or set-up. The two blues had something differentiating them but I don't recall what. Maybe one had a pearloid P.G. or black pickups or switches. These two were routed for HB's and dowelled-up for Gotoh bridges (as well as the Jag-Stang) at the Unplugged Rehearsals. The room smelled of burning wood (alder) + the router sounded better than they (the band) did."

bonus! Ferrington Mustang - "He loved the look of this but didn't like the Bartolini HB or the overall weight, it was really heavy!"

Anyway, I just wanted to say how enjoyable this thread was, much of it being way over my head but fascinating to read none-the-less. I hope something I've shared was worth it, thanks again!

User avatar
Amon 7.L
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:45 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:41 am

For a twice as lengthy split second, your joke about the 19th frets gotten me scared shitless.

The picture of Guitar Magazine is a very good find, it wasn't among the ghost photos. The quality is so good that if you enlarge it, you can even see the presence of the underlying writing below the Fender logo on the headstock. Definitely worth seeing, as it's a very clean shot.

Thanks for sharing and for you kind words.

User avatar
AcrylicSuperman
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:41 am

Definitely glad that I checked into this thread today.

Excellent read! Thanks for sharing. Greatly appreciate it.

By the way, that pic is excellent!

User avatar
AcrylicSuperman
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:27 pm

Wanted to give everyone a brief update.

I managed to discover that Fujigen had recieved two different jagstang templates, which backs Amon's theory that there were two different shapes. The reasoning behind the two different templates is unclear. We have some theory behind it but we can not actually prove that theory yet, so I won't post it here. Regardless, it is my understanding that fender requested the return of the first template and sent another. Which is why there are some differences between the 95 model and the 96. Also, I was informed that the production model Jagstangs had no initial template, so they based it off an MG69 and altered it to make it a different neck. Hence the shape and nut width.

I also recieved some news on the jagstang pickup. I got some details about Red's. Before I post those specs, I want to get the specs for Blue to see if they are the same or if it was tweaked. I know the name of the individual that has this information, Lee Bacon, the owner of Kurt's childhood home, but he is incredibly difficult to find. I am reaching out to some people. As I was born and raised in Washington state, I have met some of guys from Nirvana and Aaron Burckhard jams in a friend of mine's band. Since Aaron is still very much active in Aberdeen, if all else fails, I will reach out to him and see if he knows how to get in touch with Lee.

User avatar
Veitchy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:12 am
Location: Robe, South Australia

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Veitchy » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:55 pm

This may have been mentioned a bit further back, but if all this info makes it into a book somehow, then sign me up for a copy. In between the conflicting accounts, stumbling across more information/photos, and just the way all the info has unfolded, it makes this the best deep-dive thread on this board. I commend the effort and patience you cats have to keep moving this forward.

User avatar
AcrylicSuperman
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:37 pm

Veitchy wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:55 pm
This may have been mentioned a bit further back, but if all this info makes it into a book somehow, then sign me up for a copy. In between the conflicting accounts, stumbling across more information/photos, and just the way all the info has unfolded, it makes this the best deep-dive thread on this board. I commend the effort and patience you cats have to keep moving this forward.
Thanks. It's been a fun project. I probably wont turn it into a book, but when all is said and done, I will be making a post showcasing the Jagstangs true specs, the mods that were made, and the correct history of it (as best as we know it from the builder, techs and former Fender employees). Make sure to bookmark this thread. We'll eventually get there. I'd say we're 99% done.

User avatar
Amon 7.L
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:45 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:51 am

Veitchy wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:55 pm
This may have been mentioned a bit further back, but if all this info makes it into a book somehow, then sign me up for a copy. In between the conflicting accounts, stumbling across more information/photos, and just the way all the info has unfolded, it makes this the best deep-dive thread on this board. I commend the effort and patience you cats have to keep moving this forward.
Thank you for your kind words, I appreciate it.

I want to add that I'm finished vectorizing Patrick's 1996 Jagstang and after having his approval about being it a perfect match to his template I've started working on the reconstruction of the earlier 1995 JS.

Even though the work isn't yet done with the digital reconstruction of the latter as I want to be sure of getting the shape as close as we can before divulging unprecise information, I can nonetheless confirm that even at this stage the differences between the two do indeed exist and have found validation so far.

Furthermore, as AcrylicSuperman said, the story behind the change of templates could be even more intriguing and the correlation with the 1995/earlier 96 is massive, that's why we need to pin the exact shape of the earlier production models.
If you guys own one and want to help us out with the tracing, it would mean a huge leap forward to confirm or dismiss my current data, so please chime in, I promise I won't bite :)

Cheers

User avatar
FenderBob
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:26 am
Location: Milwaukee
Contact:

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by FenderBob » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:55 am

Side note: Another Cobain style repro jag decal has surfaced on a vintage jaguar. Only have seen a couple in a couple decades.

https://reverb.com/item/35889845-fender ... _sold=true

Image

User avatar
Amon 7.L
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:45 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:32 pm

Hello guys,
it's been a while since the last entry but today, after a very long journey and a lot work behind the scene, I want to inform you that we are officially done with our research and that we are going to give you a very interesting conclusive post.
It might take a couple of days to wrap everything up but, stick around, I promise you we won't disappoint you.

Cheers,
Amon 7.L & AcrylicSuperman

User avatar
Veitchy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:12 am
Location: Robe, South Australia

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Veitchy » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:57 am

I can't wait. this has been really informative. You've done an incredible job.

User avatar
Jan Deal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:19 pm
Location: Aberdeen, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Jan Deal » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:21 am

This thread is fully of geeky wonder!
Seas, Starry : Instrumental / fuzz / psych. Find us on Spotify, Bandcamp, itunes...

User avatar
AcrylicSuperman
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 am

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:31 am

I promise not to disappoint. The post is going to be long and it's going to be a lengthy read, but I'm able to lay everything out on the table. It is going to crush myths, maybe dreams, definitely everything anyone thinks they know about it. It might even reveal the greatest magic trick of the 20th century.

This might take me a while to write up. I'm not going to make you fine folks wait too long, I've already started a draft. But there is a lot of information to process. It is going to be worth the wait. I promise.

User avatar
Pacafeliz
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 16441
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:34 pm
Location: Cococologne, Germany

Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Pacafeliz » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:50 am

Dunno if this is of any help, but I just came across this old Fender Frontline (Fall 1994) mag I've had stashed away since forever...

Image

i might be able to properly scan it, if you need it...
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

Post Reply