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I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 12:02 pm
by Embenny
Warning: this post is long winded, skip to the photo and the last two paragraphs if you want the TLDR version.

This past winter, I bought a used Gretsch Billy Bo from an awesome local shop for a great price. It rapidly eclipsed all of my other guitars in playing time, it's just that good.

But what really bothered me was that it just didn't sound like "me". It has TV Jones Powertrons, which are overwound filtertrons meant to sound partway between a filtertron and a PAF. I own another guitar with TV Jones Classics (his baseline 'tron model) and they're superlative, but they're about as "fat" a pickup as I enjoy. I'm a singlecoil/noiseless singlecoil kind of guy, and the Billy Bo was edging too far into Les Paul territory for me.

The thing is, the Powertrons are really nice, and absurdly expensive, and it's a Gretsch 125th anniversary model, so this is one guitar I was afraid to mod. That didn't keep me from kicking around the TV Jones web site a lot though, and then I found this:

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Now, one of my biggest complaints about pickup winders has been how they publish DCR but not inductance for most of their pickups, which is by far the more useful measurement for understanding output and tone (higher inductance = higher output, more mids, lower resonant frequency), though it's still only a part of the overall picture. It was really helpful to see this across all his models.

I noticed immediately that the Powertron Plus in the bridge position is a whopping (for me) 6.77 Henries! Well over double the 2.5H of the bridge TV Classic. A vintage strat pickup is 2-3H, and a vintage PAF Is around 4-5H. The neck Powertron, at 2.77H, is also a good 50% hotter than the neck TV Classic (which I enjoy on my other Gretsch).

So, one day as I was staring at the guitar wondering what to do about it (ok, to be fair, I was playing the guitar but happened to be looking at the pickups), I suddenly remembered a mod I mention on here from time to time but never actually do because I don't own any traditional style humbuckers - the six screw mod. It's where you remove the six adjustable polepieces of a PAF to drop its inductance (dropping output, raising resonant frequency, sounding "more single coil). It's also the mod that WRHB players used to do to make their guitars sound more like a typical Fender. Essentially, you end up with one single coil from a magnetic perspective, but a humbucker from an electric perspective (the second coil now acting as a dummy coil).

Realizing that these Powertrons really have inductance to spare (to my taste, that is), and that Filtertrons have twelve adjustable pole pieces to choose from, I realized I could try this mod on these pickups with little effort and no downside. After all, Hilotrons are essentially a single coil of a filtertron, and this mod would more or less yield an overwound and humcanceling hilotron. I decided to go all G&L Z-coil/WRHB mod on these guys:

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And you know what? This thing frigging rocks now. It's spanky as all hell, with essentially an exaggerated version of the filtertron "kerrang" to the string attack that i love, while still being noiseless. And, with the tone knob down partway, it can still sound a lot like a lower output regular filtertron. With a mid and gain boost, it then gets back to a similar tone to the original, unmodified Powertrons.

It has totally cured me of my desire to change the pickups. This could easily be a dedicated model in his lineup and people would praise it as being the perfect middle ground between a classic Filtertron and a low-output Hilotron (or TV-HT, in his nomenclature). The only thing I think I'll do is to take a toothpick and try to dig out the potting wax you can see in the empty screw holes during my next string change. That's the white gunk you see in some of the holes in the photo - those screws were covered in it (even the heads, it was peeling off just from turning them with a screwdriver).

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 1:00 pm
by jvin248
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Glad you are having fun and great tone!

Most players forget they can adjust pickup heights, tilt of the pickup bass vs treble side, and mess with screw poles.

An HH guitar I have I lowered the neck pickup and raised the screw poles in a Strat stagger pattern to get a stronger single coil Strat type tone out of it that also removes hum.

This Tele Esquire-H of mine I lowered the pickup, raised the screw poles on the bridge side, and use a 4-way switch. I can fake a Tele neck (with a little tone knob roll back), Strat #2 Quack in parallel, Tele single coil bridge Twang!, and a hot LP humbucker with this guitar. The pickup is 16kohm hot and singles give 8kohms.

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Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 3:29 pm
by Axolotl
Thanks for posting this!.I remember you mentioning the mod on my Cabronita Thinline NGD thread. And I've been curious since. I will try it one of these days.

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 4:29 pm
by antisymmetric
Very interesting read, thanks for sharing. :)

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 5:53 pm
by MattK
Don't pick out the wax, you might damage the coil wire. Just hit it cautiously with a hairdryer to melt the shreds.

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 7:43 pm
by Embenny
Jvin, that's a really cool wiring setup for the esquire. I agree that hotter humbuckers present greater opportunity for usable split/parallel tones, though I kind if famously don't get along with any PAF style humbucker I've ever tried. Filtertrons have an edgier attack that feels more natural to me as a lifelong single coil player.
Axolotl wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 3:29 pm
Thanks for posting this!.I remember you mentioning the mod on my Cabronita Thinline NGD thread. And I've been curious since. I will try it one of these days.
Hah! Looking back, I clearly was already picturing doing a Z-coil 6 screw mod on a filtertron, I just never had a hot/fat filtertron to do it on until now! My only other filters are TV classics which are as bright and defined as they could ever need to be, but these were the perfect platform for doing it.
antisymmetric wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 4:29 pm
Very interesting read, thanks for sharing. :)
My pleasure, it's an underutilized mod and is worth trying on any humbucker that someone wants to remove on account of sounding too hot/fat/muddy.
MatthewK wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 5:53 pm
Don't pick out the wax, you might damage the coil wire. Just hit it cautiously with a hairdryer to melt the shreds.
I appreciate you looking out for me, but unlike Fender-style pickups where the coil is wound directly around the magnets, filtertron bobbins have a solid core for the screws to pass through, and never make contact with wire:

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I was only going to scrape it out of the very opening where you can see it, but you make a great point, and I could probably just re-melt and redistribute it with a hairdryer, thanks for the suggestion.

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 8:29 pm
by JVG
That is a cool idea. Any sonic reason for taking 3 from each side, rather than the whole row?

Now we just need someone to produce ‘fake’ screws (perhaps made of metallic plastic) to fill the voids and make the pickup look normal.

Cheers!
J.

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 9:19 pm
by Embenny
If i knew/measured what the thread was and found some short ones, or got regular filterteon screws and cut them short, i could just put regular screws in there - they only become part of the magnetic circuit if they reach the bottom of the pickup and make contact with the magnet.

The idea of doing 3+3 was the same as any slanted pickup, to move the magnetic window to be over the slightly bassier part of the lower strings and the slightly brighter part of the higher strings. Plus, it looks cool ;)

If i was a more patient man, I might try all possible arrangements- straight across the bass vs treble side of the pickup, Z, reverse Z, even a zigzag up and down...but these are LONG screws (they stick way out the back of the pickup), and the thread on them is SUPER fine, plus the fit in the bobbin is very tight. What that meant was that it took a lot more elbow grease and a way longer time to remove the 12 screws than i ever expected, cramped my hand and forearm pretty badly getting them out (though I was using my mini screwdrivers that I keep in my guitar room for guitar adjustments, if I realized how much pressure and how many rotations it would take sooner, I'd have gone to grab my ratcheting screwdriver and saved myself some pain). They're flatheads, too, so I wouldn't trust a drill or electric screwdriver for the job, they're pricey pickups on a nice guitar and I'd end up scratching something for sure.

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 10:57 pm
by Sweetfinger
You could get some black nylon machine screws and fill up the holes with those.

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:21 pm
by gjn
I used 12mm long M3 nylon screws on this set of Gretsch Broad'Trons.

Image2020-06-01_08-12-32 by GN, on Flickr

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:44 pm
by Embenny
gjn wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:21 pm
I used 12mm long M3 nylon screws on this set of Gretsch Broad'Trons.
That looks fantastic! How do the Broad'trons sound with the mod?

And do you know if that's the same size used in regular filter'trons?
Sweetfinger wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 10:57 pm
You could get some black nylon machine screws and fill up the holes with those.
I really dig this idea and have a set of digital calipers - is there an easy way to figure out both size and thread count and translate them into available sizing nomenclature?

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:53 pm
by gjn
mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:44 pm
gjn wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:21 pm
I used 12mm long M3 nylon screws on this set of Gretsch Broad'Trons.
That looks fantastic! How do the Broad'trons sound with the mod?

And do you know if that's the same size used in regular filter'trons?
Sweetfinger wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 10:57 pm
You could get some black nylon machine screws and fill up the holes with those.
I really dig this idea and have a set of digital calipers - is there an easy way to figure out both size and thread count and translate them into available sizing nomenclature?
The broad'trons are amazing now. No more muddy tones. I couldn't quite believe the difference. Nice and bright and very much like a single coil. I found the broad'trons unusable in their original form.

I found the screws on ebay uk. Search for black plastic slot head screws m3. I have no idea if they'll fit the TV Jones' but they were quite cheap to buy. Q

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:19 am
by Gordon
gjn wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:53 pm
I found the screws on ebay uk. Search for black plastic slot head screws m3. I have no idea if they'll fit the TV Jones' but they were quite cheap to buy.
Broad-trons are made in Asia, so screws are likely metric. But the Power'tron is made in the USA, it should use those: https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.co ... el-qty-12/ (i'm lost with imperial measurement, I'd rather give a link than a trunkated size :fp: ).

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:01 am
by MattK
Damn, this is a thread of clever ideas!
I actually did something like this to my '83 Squier Japan Tele Custom - it has a bar magnet WRHB copy in the neck, so I took off the pickguard and backed the non-visible screws away from the cover. Didn't take them out, but moved them a good 5mm away from the strings. The pickup sounds gorgeous - not really a WRHB sound but a lovely Fender neck pickup kind of thing. I love the idea of the nylon machine screws though, might give that a try sometime ...

Re: I just tried the "6-screw mod" on a pair of TV Jones Powertrons

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:26 pm
by s_mcsleazy
i'd be really curious to try this