The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by SAVEStheDAY » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:56 am

You wouldn't have typed all of that if you didn't want it. If you can afford it go get it. If you experience buyer's remorse it shouldn't be hard to offload it in today's market.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by seenoevil II » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:54 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:46 am
I think a Guild Starfire is a tremendous alternative.

My Casino was a Peerless made one, I had done my research and read how that was the one to get. I kind of wrote off the whole concept at that point, though... I was like, shit, if this was the good one, what are the bad ones?
Hmm. I see. Well, either that was one hell of a dud, or that 330 is stellar. That or I have no clue what a proper guitar should be like. A depressing thought if true. On the other hand, I'm a cheap date who can suffice with cruddy guitars.

Now, when we talk about labor relations, then sure, Gibson fucking sucks. I mean, the reason they moved down south was simply to take advantage of a region where there was no union to challenge them. Pretty gross.
There's that, and I saw in a HJ era factory tour that they rout a pretty large cavity between the neck and fret board to insert a RF tracking device. All to keep their employees from making off with a LP. So much for quality. Just put a massive void in the timber right where it wants to bend most, but where the customer will never see or know about it. All because you treat your employees so poorly that they will likely want to steal from you. Should make for some fun neck issues in 10-20 years.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:43 am

Not the guitar for me sonically or ergonomically.

I think a 90’s (Samick-built?) Epiphone Sheraton with upgraded low wind pickups and wiring harness would fit the bill fine, and without the reservations about hide glue.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by shoule79 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:00 pm

I played Gibson’s as my main gigging guitars throughout the early-mid 2000’s. After the band that called for them broke up I went Fender full time.

Anyway, I decided I wanted a 335 a couple years ago and was on the lookout for a new one, and tried probably 30-40 335 type guitars, including about a dozen actual Gibson’s. Cost was a bit of a factor, but I could have swung a Gibby. I bought an older MIK Riviera because it was the best player out of all of them. The stock mini humbuckers aren’t the best, but the Gibson’s weren’t night and day better either. Now the only question I have now is do I drill a hole in the top for a Bigsby.

I get what you said about a Gibson as a status symbol and having one meaning you are a “real” musician. I had a nice 80 LP Standard for years, and still have a 60’s SG. When people see my guitars they are the ones people go/went for. They never understand why I go for my tele or JM first.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by seenoevil II » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:21 pm

Not that anyone was too invested in this topic, but off the top of my dome:

Postcards: never thought they'd wind up with a '61 SG model as their #1, but love it very much (despite some roughness in BTS workmanship). Both feels strange wielding a fancy pants Gibson, but also takes some pleasure in the fact that it is a Gibson.

Larry: He really likes his Gibsons, in particular his ES-330 which is just streets ahead of a Peerless Epiphone Casino he had and hated so much that he gave it away.

Me: Samick and Peerless MIK Epis are better than the in-house Gibson MIC epi's of today, I bet that casino was a dud, but having played a vintage ES-330, I understand that they can be quite magical.

Also, me: Playing a Gibson ES-335 feels a bit conspicuous, especially given the scene I (used to) gig in.

Some other folks (sorry, can't recall who). Agreed Gibsons have status symbol baggage and could feel a little too precious to play often. They suggested I don't invest so much money in a guitar I might not care for. Others suggested doing exactly that, then selling it on if I didn't like it.

I'm not trying to restart this discussion, but wanted to preserve the broad strokes for posterity.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by MrFingers » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:32 am

I've got the same thing going, but then for an ES-345, which to me is everything perfect about the ES-335, probably one of the more versatile guitars ever created, but then even more versatile and actually understated stylish (I dislike the soberness of the 335, with the not-suiting dots or small blocks), even more stylish than the range-topping ES-355.

Thing is: alternatives are scarce if not non-existent: It's either Gibson, or some 1970's lawsuit-era guitars that come close but not close enough. I've tried the Ibanez 2467 and the Greco SA-800, but they were expensive guitars on their own.

"Luckily" the ES-345 isn't an as coveted model as the 335 is, but it still needs to bring up a nice sum. Also Gibson doesn't make a whole lot of them, and when they do, it's in limited numbers.

They all have necks I can't feel comfortable on. I don't like the '50 fat neck, the '60 slim taper neck, the late '60 pencil,... Gibson necks just don't work for me. I've played and loaned multiple examples of it: both vintage, modern & reissues. Most of them had the sound, none of them had the feel.

I'm too shit of a guitar player to own such an expensive piece of kit, it will feel wasted on me, and it will never be a guitar I'll truly enjoy playing due to the necks on them. Eventhough I can (comfortably) afford it.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:20 am

Also Larry: maybe just buy one used, play it for a year, sell it if it doesn't work for you for whatever reason and you might not even lose any money on the deal.

And then you'll know.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by seenoevil II » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:19 pm

Thread.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:34 pm

/
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Surfysonic » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:42 pm

Sometimes the thing we long for the most we hold off getting due to fear of disappointment with it for some unmet expectation. Get one, and if it isn't right for you, flip it and get your money back. It's pretty much that easy with vintage or premium guitars.

As a side note and fwiw, the only Gibson I own is an ES-135. I prefer it's aesthetics and form over the ES-335 but that's just me. It helps that they're pretty affordable as compared to an ES-335 if you can find one. They pop up now and again. 8)

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by seenoevil II » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:54 pm

I've looked at those. Especially the HB version in sunburst .

It's simple enough how to do it, but I just don't think I'll ever make it happen. They're just too expensive. Finding a sufficiently good deal on a used one demands trying them out in person, and I see maybe one per year in the Philly metro.

I just resent how expensive they are. That 135 is a perfect example of a guitar that's every bit as expensive to make, but costs an average of $1000 less.

I don't think I can play a guitar that's an "investment." I'm too cynical and contrarian to fall for that hype regardless of how justified it may be.

Anyway, anticlimatic maybe. But my goal here was a discussion of GASing for status symbols and how different actors- i.e. brands, dealers, fellow musicians, the public play into it.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Surfysonic » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:35 pm

Totally hear you. I am fortunate to have a few vintage Fenders - Jaguar, Mustangs and until recently (and my most expensive guitar ever), a '63 Jazzmaster that I ended up selling to pay down some gear debt.

The Jazzmaster was a wonderful guitar and everything that I imagined it could be. However, I wasn't comfortable at all with the idea of playing away from the house with it. I'm actually sort of relieved I sold the Jazzmaster since, for me, it was a bit stressful owning such an expensive guitar (to me at least).

As a consolation, I bought a Fender Vintera '60s Jazzmaster that I love to death and I'm absolutely comfortable playing out with it. Very happy with it and my Squier J Mascis Jazzmaster that I've modded with Joe Barden Two-Tone Jazzmaster pickups and Mastery bridge and tremolo system.

My point, I guess, is I hope you continue to enjoy your Epiphone and maybe my experience can save you some time and expense on hunting that holy grail ES-335. ;)
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:01 pm

seenoevil II wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:54 pm


I don't think I can play a guitar that's an "investment." I'm too cynical and contrarian to fall for that hype regardless of how justified it may be.
I don't buy guitars to be an investment. A thousand dollar guitar is not an investment.

You are lucky to play guitar, I think... any other instrument, and a thousand dollars buys you like a set of reeds for your oboe. Or a bow for your violin.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by mbene085 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:03 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:01 pm
You are lucky to play guitar, I think... any other instrument, and a thousand dollars buys you like a set of reeds for your oboe. Or a bow for your violin.
This is the truth, as my recent adventure into lutes has reminded me. My options were to get a "beginner" instrument for $1400 that had almost no online reviews and required extensive setup work to be usable, to lay down $5000 for a used one through unsecured classifieds online because nobody uses Reverb to sell them and none exist in my country, or to lay down $8000 and wait 2-4 years for someone to build me a custom one when I don't even know if I will ever learn to play the instrument well.

And really, that's a lot better than a lot of instrumentalists have it.

The most expensive electric guitar I ever bought was the equivalent of $2200 USD, and I felt super nervous and guilty about it at the time. It turned out to be my favourite electric guitar I've ever owned, but the reality is that we are very, very lucky to play an instrument that is so accessible. I could get by for the rest of my life with nothing but a $500 instrument and not be limited musically by that decision. Almost nobody in all of music gets to say something like that, unless you exclusively play the castanets or something.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by seenoevil II » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:07 am

It's not luck. Guitars are and have been the most salient instrument in popular human music for about a century. The sound of a guitar is our modern musical vernacular. If the lute was the top dog when the industrial and recording revolutions hit, we'd be talking about epiphone v gibson lutes right now.

Besides, we're talking about electric guitar. The dynamic range in sonic quality between high and low quality electric guitars is pretty narrow, like possibly nonexistent so long as the instrument functions properly.

I'm not saying that electric guitars don't require care and skill to manufacture well. They do. But it isn't like a violin or classical guitar where the difference between an intermediate level and professional level instrument is a night and day difference in sonic character in certain registers- something even a layperson could discern. With electric guitars, it really is the case that, to switch gears to Fender, a well set up CV Squier truly is functionally as good as any Fender. The Differences between that Squier and the prototypical "best Fender ever made" would be so minute as to be the subject of argument.

It seems like Gibson do a lot to gate keep the Es-335 in particular. They didn't allow "open book" headstock Epiphones and Orvilles in from Japan, only different headstocked Epiphpone elitists. Annoying though understandable. Fender does the same thing.

They made the Es-333, a stripped down version at a really nice price point. Immediately discontinue when people flock to it instead of the 335.

They make the satin 335 and sell it for as much as a full fledged and figured 335 cost just 7-10 years previous. As if to say, "you can have a 335 and spend 20 year old honda money on it, but we're gonna to have to let people know that you couldn't swing to real version by not polishing it." But, gloss finishes take more time and skill, I hear you saying.

They make the 335 studio. It has a full gloss finish. The body is bound. In fact, it's double bound! Bound with a black strip of binding on the outside to withhold the silhouette accenting, high contrast of white/creme binding so that it just looks wrong, cheaper. Not the real thing. When you look at the practical differences in materials and labour between that full gloss 335 studio and the plain top 335, you realize the pricing is pretty much arbitrary.

They may as well make an Es-334- where it's a complete 335 in every respect, but they drill a giant hole right in the middle of the body and charge $1,000 less.

I don't make enough money to blow an extra grand on their brand posturing.

I'm just lucky that I picked out a Sheraton II 16 years ago. It's an Epiphone that gets a pass for some reason. Many professionals use them as their number 1. It's a great guitar. The pickups are a little over engineered for my taste, but that's not their fault. After all, this guitar is straight from the My Chemical Romance/ chud rock era.

I've played ES-335s. Some had flaws that killed the mystique. But generally, they were pretty nice. About as much nicer than my Sheraton as a MIA tele is to a MIM tele. Difference is that the MIA is only 2 or 3 times the price of the MIM where the Gibson is 7 times as much as the Epi.

Gibson charge what they do for a 335 because they can, because that's what people will pay. People will pay that much because they withhold more affordable alternatives and Gibson churn up the rhetoric that what they make are something somewhat unobtainable. This is why Fender is slaughtering them with young people.

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