Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
- windmill
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 4429
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:31 am
- Location: South Eastern Australia
Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
First time painter here, just using spraycans.
Would using a white or silver undercoat coat of paint under a metallic finish brighten the metallic paint ?
Or won't it make any difference ?
As shown in the photo I am intending to paint over the greenburst finish with a metallic green , not dissimiliar in shade to the green in the burst.
Got to thinking that the black of the burst may cause the new paint to be darker in those areas.
Then thought that, like Fender does with Candy Apple Red, would an undercoat of white or silver paint reduce or eliminate any possibility of the darkening occurring ?
Any opinions would be welcome.
Thanks
Would using a white or silver undercoat coat of paint under a metallic finish brighten the metallic paint ?
Or won't it make any difference ?
As shown in the photo I am intending to paint over the greenburst finish with a metallic green , not dissimiliar in shade to the green in the burst.
Got to thinking that the black of the burst may cause the new paint to be darker in those areas.
Then thought that, like Fender does with Candy Apple Red, would an undercoat of white or silver paint reduce or eliminate any possibility of the darkening occurring ?
Any opinions would be welcome.
Thanks
- Lost In Autumn
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Contact:
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
the candy apple finishes typically have a translucent color coat over a silver base.
- JSett
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8963
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
- Location: Old Hampshire, Old England
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
Some are gold and some are silver, depending on the yearLost In Autumn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:18 amthe candy apple finishes typically have a translucent color coat over a silver base.
A gold undercoat will give it a warmer tone to silver, so it's down to what you want out of the end result
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?
- snarf
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:04 am
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
hey windmill. I think of finishing as a layered cake process. You're creating layer upon layer of material and hopefully by the end of it you have something really great when rubbed out/sanded and polished.
Concerning under coats, I always do a white undercoat then put on the metallic paint. Reason being is because it takes less metallic paint to get full coverage, such as covering all the wood grain pattern. In your case, you will need a lot of basecoat to cover up that original finish.
So why not just use a lot of basecoat? mostly its because the metallic paint has a tendency to get really heavy and then run because of all the metallic particles. I also think using a thinner basecoat gives a great metallic effect because of the space between the metallic pearls.
Vintage candy apple red finishes actually had a white-ish base coat so the gold or silver coat was really consistent. Consistent metallic coat is a must-have when shooting the transparent "candy" red shell on top of it. Once the candy is on top, you can actually see the heavy and thin spots in the metallic coat very obviously.
Consistency is key, so paint like a robot.
Concerning under coats, I always do a white undercoat then put on the metallic paint. Reason being is because it takes less metallic paint to get full coverage, such as covering all the wood grain pattern. In your case, you will need a lot of basecoat to cover up that original finish.
So why not just use a lot of basecoat? mostly its because the metallic paint has a tendency to get really heavy and then run because of all the metallic particles. I also think using a thinner basecoat gives a great metallic effect because of the space between the metallic pearls.
Vintage candy apple red finishes actually had a white-ish base coat so the gold or silver coat was really consistent. Consistent metallic coat is a must-have when shooting the transparent "candy" red shell on top of it. Once the candy is on top, you can actually see the heavy and thin spots in the metallic coat very obviously.
Consistency is key, so paint like a robot.
- Futuron
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 1234
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:19 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
If you're using metallic paint from a spraycan (like those Duplicolor touch-up cans) it makes no real difference what the undercoat is. If you spray just a few even coats there'll be nothing else visible. It's a bit different from spraying translucent candy with a gun.
What product are you using?
What product are you using?
- windmill
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 4429
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:31 am
- Location: South Eastern Australia
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
Thanks for the replies.
Using Duplicolour.
Using Duplicolour.
- tammyw
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:21 pm
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
I've never used Duplicolour, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had pretty opaque coverage. The best thing is to make some test panels and see how it turns out.
Years ago I used some Auto Air colors, and they can be applied very thin. Black undercoat looked the best for making the metallic pop and having a deep, bold color. While the white undercoat did make the color a bit lighter, it was slightly dull and hazy because it's reflecting more diffuse white light instead of just the colored and metallic bits. Silver undercoat could be used for a neat effect, but the trouble was it needed to be completely smooth or else the color layer metallics would settle in and accentuate any imperfections in the undercoat (in my case that meant using an intercoat clear and leveling it).
Also you could try a plain non-metallic green undercoat, it might give you the color you want with the least total build up. The plain opaque paint should have the best cover-up ability, and it would only need the lightest layers of metallic since the color is already there.
But don't take my advice without testing it out for yourself.
Years ago I used some Auto Air colors, and they can be applied very thin. Black undercoat looked the best for making the metallic pop and having a deep, bold color. While the white undercoat did make the color a bit lighter, it was slightly dull and hazy because it's reflecting more diffuse white light instead of just the colored and metallic bits. Silver undercoat could be used for a neat effect, but the trouble was it needed to be completely smooth or else the color layer metallics would settle in and accentuate any imperfections in the undercoat (in my case that meant using an intercoat clear and leveling it).
Also you could try a plain non-metallic green undercoat, it might give you the color you want with the least total build up. The plain opaque paint should have the best cover-up ability, and it would only need the lightest layers of metallic since the color is already there.
But don't take my advice without testing it out for yourself.
All pain and troubles melted away like lemon drops beyond the contrails across the sky.
- Lost In Autumn
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Contact:
- ludobag1
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2548
- Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:28 pm
- Location: france
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
don't know if the ground color change the color of metalics paint but the ground need to be unified, that s why we use primer ,it made the thickness of paint less necessary to have a good and uniform coverage for metalic or not
all the metalic i have done where on grey primer ,need to put some fine coat to hidden it ,an also need to made mist at last coat to made the metalic not stay flat and reflect at different angle ,the varnish you put on need also few mist coat to not flat them after ( the varnish tend to dilute the metalic if they are similar or near ,example one k with 2k on the metalliccan move if you charge with the varnish ,motip metallic can1K and 2k uréthane have made this ,1k all it could be worst )
all the metalic i have done where on grey primer ,need to put some fine coat to hidden it ,an also need to made mist at last coat to made the metalic not stay flat and reflect at different angle ,the varnish you put on need also few mist coat to not flat them after ( the varnish tend to dilute the metalic if they are similar or near ,example one k with 2k on the metalliccan move if you charge with the varnish ,motip metallic can1K and 2k uréthane have made this ,1k all it could be worst )
- windmill
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 4429
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:31 am
- Location: South Eastern Australia
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
Thanks for the responses.
I made on a start on this and have since learned several things.
Firstly is that I didnt know what type of paints were compatible.
So... (big pictures)
On the left is 2 coats of the metallic colour, on the right is the silver metalflake with a coat of the metallic green sprayed about an hour later.
Next attempt was, in the centre, silver undercoat with metallic green sprayed 2 days later, a minor amount of beading occurred. On the right end is the silver undercoat and 2 days later sanded with 800 grit and sprayed with metallic green.
So far so good .....
Sanded body
Silver metalflake sprayed, with some uneven patches, but that would be covered by the metallic greentop coat.
Two days later, after lightly sanding the silver coat, spraying the metallic green
......
and then
about an hour later
Never been a fan of relicing or "distressed" finishes but it is starting to grow on me
The lesson is incompatible types of paint but also a thorough sanding of the silver coat, to rough up the surface and give the top coat something to stick too.
Still thinking of the next step.
I made on a start on this and have since learned several things.
Firstly is that I didnt know what type of paints were compatible.
So... (big pictures)
On the left is 2 coats of the metallic colour, on the right is the silver metalflake with a coat of the metallic green sprayed about an hour later.
Next attempt was, in the centre, silver undercoat with metallic green sprayed 2 days later, a minor amount of beading occurred. On the right end is the silver undercoat and 2 days later sanded with 800 grit and sprayed with metallic green.
So far so good .....
Sanded body
Silver metalflake sprayed, with some uneven patches, but that would be covered by the metallic greentop coat.
Two days later, after lightly sanding the silver coat, spraying the metallic green
......
and then
about an hour later
Never been a fan of relicing or "distressed" finishes but it is starting to grow on me
The lesson is incompatible types of paint but also a thorough sanding of the silver coat, to rough up the surface and give the top coat something to stick too.
Still thinking of the next step.
- Futuron
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 1234
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:19 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
That looks extremely wet!
- Lost In Autumn
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Contact:
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
Next step: sand it back to the base coat, reapply using the same brand and type of finish.
- s_mcsleazy
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 18445
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:30 am
- Location: glasgow
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
i kinda love how that looks
offset guitars resident bass player.
'Are you trying to seduce me Mrs Robinson? Or do you just want me to solder a couple of resistors into your Muff?'
'Are you trying to seduce me Mrs Robinson? Or do you just want me to solder a couple of resistors into your Muff?'
- andy_tchp
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8061
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:36 am
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Novice painting question - Using a white or silver undercoat under a metallic finish ?
Damn that’s rough
Yep.Lost In Autumn wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:43 amNext step: sand it back to the base coat, reapply using the same brand and type of finish.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.