A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Talk about modding or building your own guitar from scratch.
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Azureglo
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A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Azureglo » Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:51 am

So, a bit of context: I’m predominantly a bebop/hardbop jazz player who runs blues jams and does sessions as well. Recently I’ve got tired of my big jazz boxes, it feels like I’m clambering over a mountain most of the time. Then watching my musical hero, Joe Pass, in grainy footage with a Jazzmaster & Jaguar got me thinking, he still sounds like Joe but looks a helluva lot more comfortable…

I also have to admit to absolutely loving the skinny, glossy necks fitted to my various Squier Classic Vibes so naturally, I got in a Squire CV 60’s Jazzmaster to try it out:

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Body shape perfect, snuggles into me nicely and super comfortable sitting down- Leo had that bang on. Everything else, I hated, the plinking overtones (even with the trem stop), the ludicrous wiggling bridge, the awful vibrato/gearshift, the woeful string break angle , the shrill trebly twangy pickups, the laughable rhythm circuit etc. The neck and the body, I love.

So, I thought, what if Leo had gone to talk to a young Joe Pass (or certainly the pre Synanon version with hair). I reckon what he would have come away with:
  • Single neck pickup, preferably warm and bassy like an ES-150 “Charlie Christian"
  • No tremolo
  • Simple controls, no need for the silly bass cut, we use the volume when comping
  • Super comfy to play sitting down - he even got a patent for this did, Leo

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So, I’m going for that imaginary spec with this hard tail:

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Some height adjustable saddles like the originals but sans threads and in brass for extra mojo… Bridge post taped up and height adjuster on lowest with thread locker.

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A P90 from Mojo (UK)

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First is unscrewing everything…

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Man, its ugly in here.

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Bit of filling/cleaning up followed by the obligatory shielding foil tape-note all the debris under the foil, would it have killed them to blow out the wood detritus before smearing on the graphite paint? That said it was deeply satisfying to do the “foiling”.

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The pickguard is a custom order from Brian Pilans UK eBay store and the screening shield is a stock Fender item but needed adjusting.

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A neat soldering job for a change...used a stock 250K/0.047pF combo to keep everything mellow and treble free.

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And Ta Da, we ‘re done!!

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So, first thoughts, running stock D’Addario 11s with a wound g and through my ancient Polytone Mini Brute, this hits the sweet spot. Covers all my usual bases from hard bop swinging lines to cocktail bar solo chord melody with a simple twist of the volume knob. I do like this Mojo P90, very reminiscent of the P90 on my first ES-175, a 50’s model with a single pickup as favoured by Barney Kessel, lovely note separation on shell voicings and a nice tenor sax growl on solo lines. That said there's still a bit of “plinkiness” compared to my Offset Tele.

I’ll futz around with strings, having recently tried Thomastik 10 flat wounds in lieu of the D’Addario Chromes which I find too high tension and dull. Noise wise, I use P90s a lot and it’s there, but doesn’t bug me and I carry a Boss noise gate if things get ugly. That said, Mojo and a few others make Jazzmaster sized Humbuckers so they’re on the cards for further experimentation. If its a keeper, then I'll change that lurid cream cover and black knobs for some parchment items.

I have this Offset Tele in progress as a similar take on the same idea:

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It’ll be interesting to compare these after I’ve tried this compact type Roswell Charlie Christian pickup on the Offset Tele,

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It is actually just a glorified P90 as well and only bears a cosmetic resemblance to the real deal:http://www.ccpickups.co.uk/pickups.html# which sported two horizontal 4-inch steel magnets with three suspension screws for attachment. That said it’s got 38AWG winding wire, an Alnico 3 magnet and a civilised 3.2K output, perfect for no nasty pre amp overdrive…

Now I’m reminded of a thread on “modding” that was recently put up another forum: So my thoughts on why we “mod”: Well, take this beastie: I play jazz mostly, I play it sitting down and I find my expensive huge hollow bodies uncomfortable these days. Tried Teles : thinner but dig into my ribs sitting down, feeble intonation set up etc.

So, by taking an inexpensive stock guitar for a canvas, and a small amount of effort, I’ve got something that suits me while trying out some ideas. Something I cannot easily buy without spending custom shop money and finding out it doesn’t work for me. It’s all about finding our own voice, sometimes the £4k FendSon Flametop NOS Reliced Ukulele does it first time.

For others like me, we need something that’s not off the shelf. YMMV. I’ll live with this and if I like it fine, if not, into the workshop, add the matching bridge PU and it’ll get the Elvis Costello treatment, for £325 it’ll be a bit of fun and something interesting to bring to covers gigs, I know folk who spend that on pickups for their latest custom built £5K Eggle…

I have some other ideas, maybe a mahogany or walnut Thinline Tele with front/back contours ( and one of my many CV 60's necks..) and bit more flexibility for my session/Cornell Dupree moments? That said, next up is the Offset Tele again with a single PU, I’m looking forward to this journey of exploration…

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BTW, used it a local jazz jam last night and one the of crusty (non-playing) punters scoffed,

“That’s not a proper jazz guitar”

I replied

“Cool, I’m not a proper jazz guitarist…”

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:32 am

Cool project(s)!

I'll admit that I myself know very little about jazz, and am a bit lost when you mentioned Bebop or hardbop. There's some jazz out there that I like, but I don't know much about sub-genres. But in any case, all are welcome here! Love to see some more projects and what you do with them! Welcome to OSG!
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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Deed_Poll » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:24 pm

Very cool brief you've written for yourself!

I'd love to make you a thinline Jazzmaster body with arm and belly contours!

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I have never done one with a Charlie Christian pickup, but I'd be really interested to. Especially if you were to use a suspended CC pickup, I reckon I could do a fully hollow one. I'd be looking to combine it with a trapeze tailpiece and ABR-1 bridge if it were mine!
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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Azureglo » Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:02 pm

Deed_Poll wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:24 pm
Very cool brief you've written for yourself!

I'd love to make you a thinline Jazzmaster body with arm and belly contours!


I have never done one with a Charlie Christian pickup, but I'd be really interested to. Especially if you were to use a suspended CC pickup, I reckon I could do a fully hollow one. I'd be looking to combine it with a trapeze tailpiece and ABR-1 bridge if it were mine!

Interestingly, I have been talking to Guitarbuild about doing this with a mahogany body instead of their usual walnut:

Image

That said I'm not fan of the trapeze/ABR setup having had L4s, ES175s, a Howard Roberts Fusion III ( with the loopy and useless "fingers" tailpiece) and even a Barney Kessel over the past 30 years: Switching to shorter string lengths and the string through body Fender setup was revelation along to dropping from 13 to 10/11 so not going back anytime soon.

If the Guitarbuild thing doesn't work out I'll be in touch, where in the UK are you?

Cheers

Anil

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Lame Pseudonym » Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:57 pm

Excellent.

My approach was to buy an original (pre-stupid trem) Affinity Jazzmaster. Thinner body like the first real ones, generic hardtail bridge. Although on mine I moved the jack to the edge of the body like a Tele and moved the controls back one space (the volume control is where the tone control was and the tone control is where the jack was). This gets the knobs out of the way of my right hand.

OFFSETGUITARS flags the word Jazzmaster as a nonword. That's a hoot. I hope they don't fix it.

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Deed_Poll » Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:14 pm

Azureglo wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:02 pm
Deed_Poll wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:24 pm
Very cool brief you've written for yourself!

I'd love to make you a thinline Jazzmaster body with arm and belly contours!


I have never done one with a Charlie Christian pickup, but I'd be really interested to. Especially if you were to use a suspended CC pickup, I reckon I could do a fully hollow one. I'd be looking to combine it with a trapeze tailpiece and ABR-1 bridge if it were mine!

Interestingly, I have been talking to Guitarbuild about doing this with a mahogany body instead of their usual walnut:

Image

That said I'm not fan of the trapeze/ABR setup having had L4s, ES175s, a Howard Roberts Fusion III ( with the loopy and useless "fingers" tailpiece) and even a Barney Kessel over the past 30 years: Switching to shorter string lengths and the string through body Fender setup was revelation along to dropping from 13 to 10/11 so not going back anytime soon.

If the Guitarbuild thing doesn't work out I'll be in touch, where in the UK are you?

Cheers

Anil
Looks cool!

I'm based in Lewes, near Brighton on the south coast.

First thing is, I'm not going to be able to compete with GuitarBuild on price. They offer great value, and quite honestly I don't know how they do what they do for the price they're able to charge! So you'd be getting a lot for your money with them, I have no doubt.

Having said that, I think if you compared our thinlines with contours, it would be a night and day difference. Not meaning to criticise what they do, but my contours will be about three times as deep and four or five times the surface area, my edge thickness around the f-hole is going to be consistent 1/8" (I believe theirs is 1/4" like the rest of the top? Can anyone confirm?) and their contour only seems to start after the f-hole is finished (or right towards the end); whereas mine wraps right around the contour.

I am able to offer these uncompromising features because the way I make them is an absolute ordeal, and involves CNC routing the interior with as much precision as the exterior, before indexing and clamping top to back; and only then cutting the exterior in its totality and revealing the f-hole edge when I cut the contour. This means it makes no difference to my process where I place the f-hole, so it can be in the place I feel is most compositionally balanced, rather than being in a position that is slightly compromised by the demands of a more straightforward construction method.

Some more pics of the contours:

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This also means I can do it as a full hollowbody, or maybe fully hollow but with a wide post to take the string-thru holes and ferrules if you want? I'm open to all sorts of custom options and ideas. But it does cost.

The things GuitarBuild are able to do are amazing and I'm sure you'll get a great result with them. Do I provide twice the body for twice the price? Honestly, probably no. But it depends on what you value. That last 20% always takes 80% of the time and cost - to the right person it might make the difference between something good-enough and something really special, but to someone else it might be profligate spending better used in other areas of the build.

Wishing you the best of luck with it whatever you decide, I'll be watching the progress with interest, since a truly jazzy Jazzmaster is something I've always wondered about! Cheers
Owner Operator of GuitarForm - Custom Offset Guitar Bodies
www.guitarform.com ◈ @guitar_form

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Veitchy » Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:28 pm

I actually love what you did with your JM. I've contemplated building a single neck pickup Jazzmaster as a sort of inverted take on the single pickup Gretsch Tennessean guitars. Glad it works for you.
Azureglo wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:51 am

So, I thought, what if Leo had gone to talk to a young Joe Pass (or certainly the pre Synanon version with hair).
Holy shit that's right. Those mad bastards released a jazz record.

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by nnieman » Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:00 am

Thats a very cool project!

Nathan

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Azureglo » Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:49 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:32 am
Cool project(s)!

I'll admit that I myself know very little about jazz, and am a bit lost when you mentioned Bebop or hardbop. There's some jazz out there that I like, but I don't know much about sub-genres. But in any case, all are welcome here! Love to see some more projects and what you do with them! Welcome to OSG!
Cheers. Jazz is a funny thing, I see it just as an extension of the blues but man its gets complicated quickly, there's a stack of theory to learn and that's before you even get to tritone subs and Joe Pass' major/minor scale ...luckily for me as a sight reading 12 year old violin player, it all made perfect sense thank god, even if some the theory was byzantine compared to what a classical composer would use. You know where you are with Bach, not so much with Charlie Parker.

As for genres, bebop is the de-facto standard and largely consists of improvising over 32 bar popular song progressions where you spontaneously improvise without rehearsal - it can be great or sometimes not so great...Mr Parker as mentioned "created" it and was aided by a young less intense Miles Davis. It can be a difficult thing to listen to and sometimes a bit self indulgent.

Hard bop on the other was a supposed reaction to the noodling, more bluesy with proper tunes and hooks. Check out Lee Morgan's SideWinder or Horace Silvers Preacher or Song for My Father which morphed into Rikki Don't Lose That Number. A great album is Cannonball Adderley's Somethin' Else ( featuring Mr Davis & Art Blakey) which has a killer bluesy version of Autumn Leaves and opens with a minor pentatonic riff.

When I teach other players I start them off by suggesting they use a 9th or 13th chord whenever there a IV or V in a I -IV-V and of course the 7th#9 which every knows as the Hendrix Chord despite it appearing on Benny Goodman and Ellington sides in the thirties...

"A little jazz never hurt nobody" as my first guitar teacher told me...

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Azureglo » Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:56 am

Deed_Poll wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:14 pm
Azureglo wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:02 pm
Deed_Poll wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:24 pm
Very cool brief you've written for yourself!

Looks cool!

I'm based in Lewes, near Brighton on the south coast.

First thing is, I'm not going to be able to compete with GuitarBuild on price. They offer great value, and quite honestly I don't know how they do what they do for the price they're able to charge! So you'd be getting a lot for your money with them, I have no doubt.

Having said that, I think if you compared our thinlines with contours, it would be a night and day difference. Not meaning to criticise what they do, but my contours will be about three times as deep and four or five times the surface area, my edge thickness around the f-hole is going to be consistent 1/8" (I believe theirs is 1/4" like the rest of the top? Can anyone confirm?) and their contour only seems to start after the f-hole is finished (or right towards the end); whereas mine wraps right around the contour.

I am able to offer these uncompromising features because the way I make them is an absolute ordeal, and involves CNC routing the interior with as much precision as the exterior, before indexing and clamping top to back; and only then cutting the exterior in its totality and revealing the f-hole edge when I cut the contour. This means it makes no difference to my process where I place the f-hole, so it can be in the place I feel is most compositionally balanced, rather than being in a position that is slightly compromised by the demands of a more straightforward construction method.


This also means I can do it as a full hollowbody, or maybe fully hollow but with a wide post to take the string-thru holes and ferrules if you want? I'm open to all sorts of custom options and ideas. But it does cost.

The things GuitarBuild are able to do are amazing and I'm sure you'll get a great result with them. Do I provide twice the body for twice the price? Honestly, probably no. But it depends on what you value. That last 20% always takes 80% of the time and cost - to the right person it might make the difference between something good-enough and something really special, but to someone else it might be profligate spending better used in other areas of the build.

Wishing you the best of luck with it whatever you decide, I'll be watching the progress with interest, since a truly jazzy Jazzmaster is something I've always wondered about! Cheers
Many, many thanks for the wood shop porn- I have developed a love of all tree related things in my semi-retirement.

Regarding the cost, not an issue I’ve looked at your prices and you’re not that far off Guitarbuild’s by the time extra work is factored in. I’ll see it through though as they’ve put a lot of time into researching stuff for me. In real terms what we’re talking about is inexpensive, its the mid/bottom end of Fender Mexico money at £600-900 for a raw body , I doubt you’re doing this to buy a Ferrari!

If their semi and the CC ES-250 works, I think one of your fully hollow (centre block?) would probably be the that holy grail I’m looking for. Plus, Lewes is pretty close to Brighton where I have a few rental properties and also has the best Bills IMHO…

It’s the CC pickup I need to get some experience of: I’ve tried both Colin (UK guy) and A.N. Others versions on this guy’s guitars.

http://www.slamanguitars.com/

I couldn’t draw any pick-up conclusions as their clubby necks with flat wound 13s made the experience so uncomfortable, I just could not get anything approaching a decent sound out of my Polytone or Henriksen, normally the easiest combos to get that sweet mid-range tenor sax growl. The solid bodies were a bit better and the pickup definitely had “something” but I need to live and gig with it, considering the amount of time , money and surgery required to make it work.

Note the huge chunk removed from that back of the solid bodies to get this brute in. BTW his prices might seem steep but jazz standards he’s normal so yours are positively a bargain…

I’m also getting one of these to try out the stop bar/ABR as well the shorter scale- played a few Byrdlands and my smallish hands loved them

Image

With these journey man self-mods, its really a case of finding that magic combination and then saying to a proper craftsman, make me a high-end version of this.

Cheers

Anil

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Azureglo » Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:10 am

Lame Pseudonym wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:57 pm
Excellent.

My approach was to buy an original (pre-stupid trem) Affinity Jazzmaster. Thinner body like the first real ones, generic hardtail bridge. Although on mine I moved the jack to the edge of the body like a Tele and moved the controls back one space (the volume control is where the tone control was and the tone control is where the jack was). This gets the knobs out of the way of my right hand.

OFFSETGUITARS flags the word Jazzmaster as a nonword. That's a hoot. I hope they don't fix it.
This got me on to the interweb and found an unmolested one for £100 or so locally, worth a punt just for the body with the hardtail, many thanks!

Anil

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by nnieman » Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:27 am

Tim McNelly makes a p90 Sized Charlie cristian
If you decide you don’t like it - it would be simple to swap in a p90.
https://mcnellypickups.com/products/soa ... -christian
I have a guitar with a vintage p13 in the neck position - it’s the step in between the Charlie Christian and p90.
It’s really warm and clear.

Nathan

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:20 am

This is pretty cool.

If I were playing jazz I would probably go with a Fralin Big Single in the neck. Very full sounding without getting muddy as you roll the tone down, and a beautiful bell-like top end. It’s the sort of sound I picture Bill Frisell using.

I grew up playing classical violin too. Unfortunately I threw out whatever I learned with respect to theory when I rebelled and picked up the guitar.

One of the first jazz records that really blew me away was Joe Pass and Ella Fitzgerald’s “Speak Love”. Joe was really something. I went through a phase of being heavily into Monk and Bud Powell for a while. Milt Jackson is another of my favorites.

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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Deed_Poll » Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:06 am

Hey Anil,

Yes the original Bill's was in Lewes! It's a small world, and impossible to keep track of how large the chain has become. Bill was always a ruthless entrepreneur, but it still seems weird to me when I see them in London, as I still think of it as being an "independent" here - because that's how it started, and it's still in the same place!

Part of me has always wondered how a wraparound would handle jazz. I have a compensated MojoAxe wrap (one-piece polished aluminium) which sounds great in my '61 LP Special. If I'm ever scratching the jazz itch, I care mostly about buzz/rattle and keeping that to a minimum.

I have no idea why, but I've found Fenders always have that slight "fizziness" with their normal Strat / Tele bridges. I think it might have something to do with the strings not having slots on the saddles to constrain them laterally, because the only Fender I've played that didn't exhibit that was a Tele with slotted saddles. Weirdly, I don't hear it on the wrap, even though that has no string slots either.

If you feel like splashing the cash, I'd love to take on a complete custom build! But see where you're at and what you want when the data's in on the current round of projects and experiments - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the CC pickup in particular.

Cheers!

Dan
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Re: A Jazzmaster for Jazz.

Post by Maggieo » Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:09 am

I took an '86 MIJ Thinline and put these Lollars in it. I can't play Jazz, but a friend who can sounded amazing when he played it.

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1986 Thinline Telecaster, July 10, 2021 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

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1986 Thinline Telecaster, July 10, 2021 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

Image
1986 Thinline Telecaster, July 10, 2021 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
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