A question of ethics. To all you relicers....

[PorkyPrimeCut]

Seeing some of the recent reliced jobs on this board has got me thinking.
Some of the work shown on this site is pretty faultless. I only really know that they're reproductions because I've seen the work from start to finish.

So.....Say someone offers silly money because they think the guitar is vintage, do you let them know or do you just go with the flow?

The guy who reliced my guitar (a questionable job I have to say) always leaves a mark - call it a signature - that shows (to the trained eye) that its a reliced job.
He sold a Telecaster that he built from parts & it looked fucking amazing! I think it sold for £4000 in the end.

I have to point out before you vote that relicing takes time & can probably be considered as an art. Some are good, some are bad, some are incredible.
You should obviously expect some payback for your time but how much??

[Yessongs]

Thanks for posting this.

If the buyer acknowledges it is a relic/repro, I guess it is OK to let him pay whatever he thinks it is worth.  The problem, however, is not the builder of the repro; it is the buyer.  He might turn around and resell it to a novice collector, who can barely tell a Jaguar from Jazzmaster, for much more than what he paid to the builder, saying "this is one of the kind vintage I happened to come across.  Take it or leave it. "

As the repro changes its owner's hands a couple of times, it WILL become a "vintage" somewhere along the road, regardless whether the reseller intentionally or unknowingly tells his buyer "it's a vintage".  In light of today's "vintage guitar fad", I am more than sure this is already happening.

Isn't this why FCS put so many "FCS" logos and marks on their products?  I would not be surprised even if FCS were putting on "hidden marks" somewhere within the guitar, which even "trained eyes" could overlook.

I really wonder how many of "vintage guitars" on the net auction are genuine, when the seller states something like "don't know much about history of this particular piece ...".  All I know is I surely do not want to find myself in "real vs fake" disputes with someone I have never met.

[NBarnes21]

I would feel terrible if I sold a relicd guitar to someone under false pretenses.

[Stereordinary]

I've been thinking about relicing my project '54 Jazzy after I finish it.  I thought it would be fun to then take it downtown to a local guitar shop and just ask to play it through some cool amp.  Just sit there and play and see if anyone asks about it.  I'd say, "Yeah, my grandfather gave this to me.  He said it was a prototype, but my Grandfather says all kinds of crazy shit, so I don't really know."  Flip it over and around a couple times and see if the guy can tell I'm lying through my teeth.  Hand it over if he asks to look at it.  See how long I can hold out.

Knowing me, it wouldn't be long.  I'm an inherently truthfull person.  I'd start smiling and pretty soon giggling.  At least if he hasn't already spotted that it's a fake.  Then I'd tell him of course.  I wouldn't leave with anyone thinking I really had a prototype Jazzmaster.  That'd be pretty stupid.

[mynameisjonas]

i'm not a pro refinisher/relicer so i don't really have any business answering this question, but if i was one i'm pretty sure wouldn't dare to try and trick people. even if i had like übernatural skillz, chances are that they'd find out sooner or later.

oh wait, i mean; yes i have a conscience...

[mjet]

There are people out there who will pay high prices for newly-assembled relic guitars. Look at Nash guitars to see what I mean - people pay money  approaching Fender Custom Shop prices for what are essentially AllParts parts guitars with a relic job. So I guess that's the happy medium - you can sell off a truly world-class relic for pretty good money and have a clear conscious about it.

[fenderjeff]

I voted "no way", just because nobody did before me!

I'm not a big relic fan anyway.

(edit)

[lscott]

I'd be willing to pay as much for a high quality parts guitar than a factory relic job.However,selling a relic as as something other than what it is could be veiwed as fraud.

[K-Line]

Tell them what they are buying, simple.  What they are willing to pay?, Up to them! They do not have to buy.

[BenHagerty]

Tell them what they are buying, simple.  What they are willing to pay?, Up to them! They do not have to buy.

+1

[Papajerry]

Ditto!

[fuzzjunkie]

i'd certainly tell them, and if they pass it off to the next person as an actual vintage instrument, well it's their karma, not mine.

[Ninja Mike 808]

Depends on who the person is.  If they cam to me acting arogant, snooty and snobbish, I would let them be ignorant.  Who am I to open a close minded person's eyes?

On the real, tho, they can always check the serial number, so there's no sense in lying to anyone.  At the same time, if it's not a real Fender (or any other big name brand) then I would also inform them of that fact.  If I bought and assembled a Warmoth, and then painted and relic'd it - I would let em know it's me behind the guitar, and not a Les Paul or something.

[Orang Goreng]

On the real, tho, they can always check the serial number, so there's no sense in lying to anyone.

Well, on vintage Fenders the serial number is on the neck plate... it's easy enough to put a real neckplate (or a good copy...there are people on e.g. eBay offering custom engraved plates) on a copy guitar. The serial number on Fenders says nothing about their authenticity, really.

I'm not a lawyer (nor play one on TV), but AFAIK, putting a Fender logo on a non-Fender guitar and then selling it is trademark infringement, and therefore illegal, right? Selling it under the pretense that it is in fact an original Fender would not just be trademark infringement, but something even worse (as said, I'm not a lawyer ).

I was joking about this with some others here recently.... a lot of us have put a particular kind of repro Jaguar decal on our guitars. Sometimes to restore an original one (I have one on my original '62 neck), sometimes to finish of an aftermarket project. This repro has the letters spelling J A G U A R spaced too widely (it has the spacing of the MIJ/CIJ ones, I think, but not that of the vintage ones). I can imagine that, long after we've all gone, people on a future version of this forum will have heated debates about why and when Fender spaced the letters in several different ways in the 60s...

This one, I mean:

[Danocaster]

some refins and relics DO fool people - UNFORTUNATELY

For the guitars I build, I personally sign the neck and body pocket and stamp a serial number into the wood so it CANT be sanded away

But there are people who are out to rip people off and not offer full disclosure on issues of a truly vintage instrument

I was brought up to be honest - but you cant EXPECT that from everybody - which makes Ebay a scary place unless you really KNOW your stuff

"Do unto others as you would have them DO UNTO YOU" ( a quote from the Good Book - and words to live by )