Upgrade order bridge/trem/nut/tuners

[MrBaens]

I just redid the electrics in my player jaguar, sounds great. I shimmed and refinished the neck, plays great. So now it’s down to the last few bits. It’s not easy to tune or keep in tune, especially when using the trem.

I’ve ordered a staytrem bridge but it’s currently got a long wait time so I’m wondering if some other bits might be more urgent. Currently there’s the stock (non-locking) tuners and the stock (non-locking) fender trem. Each costs a little more than100bucks to replace (I was thinking Fender American Vintage trem and schaler f series locking tuners) but since cash is tight I prefer to wait and upgrade one at a time as necessary. The nut is also a possible culprit but I’d rather take it to a tech to do that and they may just blame it on one of the other bits.

So my main question is this, how do I tell where my tuning issues are coming from? Does someone with more wisdom have advice as to what might be most urgent to swap out?

[MrBaens]

Also the bridge is pretty urgent, the saddles really don’t want to stay level and there’s almost constant rattles where one half of the seat gives up the ghost and vibrates it’s way out of sync.

Also a lot of buzzing and rattling with the trem arm that the staytrem website says their arm can fix. Any opinions on that?

[GilmourD]

Lemme help you save a bit of money here.

Locking tuners don't actually help keep a guitar in tune. Yes, they're convenient for string changes. Yes, I do actually own a couple guitars with them. But what you need is a well-cut nut. The nut is the likely culprit of most tuning issues and if a tech can't make a guitar stay in tune with a well-cut nut and tuning up to the note even with crappy import trapezoid tuners then that's not a good tech.

As far as the trem, I've been getting the AllParts trem with the locking button (and cleaning up the edge of the pivot plate) for my builds along with a Staytrem arm for it and it's been awesome, but I totally get that you might not want to from a Fender logo'd trem to a blank plate.

If you're in the US GuitarAudio on Reverb has the best pricing on the AVRI trem:

• Genuine Fender Jaguar/Jazzmaster USA Vintage '62 Tailpiece Tremolo - Chrome
• Genuine Fender Vintage USA Jaguar/Jazzmaster Tremolo Arm Trem Whammy Bar CHROME
• Genuine Fender Stratocaster Strat Aged White Tremolo/Trem Arm Tips - Pack of 2

I gave you the link for the aged white tip since that probably matches what you already have, but whatever color tip that fits a vintage Strat is what you need.

But let's get to the crux of the urgency. You can make zero hardware changes and still get that thing playing fantastically, if a bit of work is put into it.

• A well-cut nut, even if it's tweaking the slots on the existing nut
• Clean up the die-cut edge of the pivot plate in the trem for cleaner arm use
• Make sure the trem spring isn't binding on the perch
• Blue threadlocker on the height adjustment screws for the bridge

Tuning issues come from the guitar not being able to keep the speaking length of the string consistent through use and that's caused by binding at the nut (fixed by having clean slots), the opposite at the bridge caused by the strings shifting on the saddles often due to a lack of downward pressure or the whole bridge shifting (fixed by shimming the neck to get the bridge up high without crazy action and threadlocker on the height screws), and the trem not returning to its neutral position (often because the knife edge of the pivot plate isn't cleanly cut or binding on the spring).

[GilmourD]

Also the bridge is pretty urgent, the saddles really don’t want to stay level and there’s almost constant rattles where one half of the seat gives up the ghost and vibrates it’s way out of sync.

Also a lot of buzzing and rattling with the trem arm that the staytrem website says their arm can fix. Any opinions on that?

This is the bridge with the individually adjustable saddles, correct? I'm admittedly not a fan of it in general and have replaced those with the bridge from the Squier Classic Vibes because that's ironically VASTLY superior even though it's cheaper, but the problem comes down mostly to loose tolerances on the screws. That slop can be helped by teensy, tiny dabs of blue threadlocker on the height screws of the saddles, too. If you have good bridge height, you can also raise the saddles themselves and lower the bridge plate a tad, which will put more pressure on those screws and hold them against their threads a bit more.

The arm on that trem is the threaded one, correct? I didn't like that as a fix for the floppy arm and, I'll be honest, I'm putting Staytrem arms on all my offsets. If it's the straight arm without threads, then in the meantime you can put a bend in that portion of the arm so you have a friction fit. I've seen somebody build up a couple layers of superglue around that part of the arm, too, for the same purpose.

[DrippyReverbTremolo]

+1 on GilmourD.

A badly cut nut is almost always to culprit of tuning instability. I'd have a guitar tech file the nut slots one string gauge bigger than what you are using. In the meantime put some chap stick in the nut slots. Don't lubricate the bridge saddles!

[MrBaens]

Amazing stuff everyone! so many resources. So a couple of points: I did shim the neck to 1degree, and will look at the all parts trem block, but mostly I should point out that I’m playing with 11s. So two higher than the 9s from the stock setup.

There was a setup done at the shop where I got it but I think they just changed the strings and adjusted the truss. (They really didn’t know about offsets) so I’m not super enthusiastic about going back there. So that means finding a new guitar tech or filing the nut myself… is it hard to do right/ easy to screw up?

[DrippyReverbTremolo]

Filing the nut requires practise and a set of quality nut files. Purchasing a set of those only makes sense if you have loads of guitars, or if you are luthier/tech.

Other than that everyone can set up an electric guitar. Watch a few StewMac and Puisheen vids on YT. I think it's fun and saves on paying for having it done.

Post a photo of your bridge height. A 1" shim can be too much of a good thing. Some newer JMs and Jags have an angled neck pocket and most likely require little to no shims.

[timtam]

Your Player Jaguar has the 'blacktop' bridge (adjustable-height, small smooth-barrel saddles). Your Staytrem order should be a nice upgrade. But it probably won't make that much difference to tuning stability. As others have said, the nut may need work if the strings are binding there with trem use. Changing from the stock 9's to 11's may have pushed you into that realm, although the shop should have checked the nut for that (does not require specific offset expertise). On the plus side, your 11's with a 1deg shim should put you well into a good ballpark for string-saddle downforce and thus consistent bridge rocking (which typically requires one or both of those changes). Don't take any notice of the common suggestion in Facebook offset to wrap the posts with tape or do anything else to impede bridge rocking (the quality of offset advice on FB is often abysmal). As also noted, never lubricate the string-saddle contact points. The strings must maintain their grip on the saddles, and that requires high string-saddle friction.

[MrBaens]

Here’s the height.

[GilmourD]

Here’s the height.

Hey, the DropBox link didn't work because it's a page and not just the image, but I threw it up on Imgur.



Make sure the saddle height screws are even (the saddle parallel to the bridge plate). Uneven saddles can rattle.

[marqueemoon]

I say start with bridge and nut.

I agree with keeping the saddles level and maybe some purple Loctite will help, but those bridges are not great.

[GilmourD]

I say start with bridge and nut.

I agree with keeping the saddles level and maybe some purple Loctite will help, but those bridges are not great.

I agree. I've had a couple of those bridges and they're not my favorite at all. The one I had actually installed on a guitar got replaced with a Classic Vibe 9.5" 52mm bridge super quick.

[MrBaens]

Gotcha. Thanks for fixing the image. Yeah I was a little surprise a) that it did actually *need* a shim and b) that it needed such a big one.

The staytrem was ordered 10 weeks ago, currently they say a back order of 12 weeks. (But they don’t ask you to pay until the order is ready - legends!) so I’m super glad I put the order in right away. Is it worth adding on the trem arm too? It’s a bit expensive to do without thinking but not enough to warrant a whole order (including shipping and taxes)

I’ll have a think about replacing the trem system with the AVM as an excuse to contact the guitar tech I had recommended to see if they can install that and adjust the nut at the same time. in the mean time I’ve lubed it a little and it seems to behave ok enough for now but that bad boy is on my radar.

[GilmourD]

Gotcha. Thanks for fixing the image. Yeah I was a little surprise a) that it did actually *need* a shim and b) that it needed such a big one.

The staytrem was ordered 10 weeks ago, currently they say a back order of 12 weeks. (But they don’t ask you to pay until the order is ready - legends!) so I’m super glad I put the order in right away. Is it worth adding on the trem arm too? It’s a bit expensive to do without thinking but not enough to warrant a whole order (including shipping and taxes)

I’ll have a think about replacing the trem system with the AVM as an excuse to contact the guitar tech I had recommended to see if they can install that and adjust the nut at the same time. in the mean time I’ve lubed it a little and it seems to behave ok enough for now but that bad boy is on my radar.

Installing an offset trem is six screws during a string change and then adjusting the spring tension. Probably one of the easiest end-user upgrades ever.

[MrBaens]

Adjusting the spring tension is the bit that scares me. Seems fiddly as can be. It’s easy?