So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
- Marc
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So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
Well agreed - the XII looks great with the huge bridge and subtle variation on the Jazzmaster body. I think it's a very interesting project so I'd thought I'd write up a few thoughts.
To be honest I think it will be a nightmare to implement as the XII bridge was designed to work with a wider neck - and that is assuming you could get hold of a XII bridge assembly! The Fender XII was built from the ground up to be a XII and that is why it works so well... so to try and make it work as a six stringer using the bridge and body will I think cause too many problems.
One approach would be to look at the key design features of the XII (number of strings accepted)....and what six string designs share this. Fortunately Leo Fender took these design features and used them successfully at both Musicman and G & L....
So my approach would be to use the G & L Z3 as the main donor of parts and build it into an Offset body without the top routing (Warmoth do this).
Imagine the following as a offset (a Z3 built into an offset body) ....
You have the huge bridge and the funky pickups.... both obviously evolved from the XII. Even better - G & L guitars are great quality and have poor second hand value meaning you can pick one up cheap.
It makes me want to think about building one now!! Not sure about the small headstock though.... I love the shape though.... cool in an ugly sort of way!
To be honest I think it will be a nightmare to implement as the XII bridge was designed to work with a wider neck - and that is assuming you could get hold of a XII bridge assembly! The Fender XII was built from the ground up to be a XII and that is why it works so well... so to try and make it work as a six stringer using the bridge and body will I think cause too many problems.
One approach would be to look at the key design features of the XII (number of strings accepted)....and what six string designs share this. Fortunately Leo Fender took these design features and used them successfully at both Musicman and G & L....
So my approach would be to use the G & L Z3 as the main donor of parts and build it into an Offset body without the top routing (Warmoth do this).
Imagine the following as a offset (a Z3 built into an offset body) ....
You have the huge bridge and the funky pickups.... both obviously evolved from the XII. Even better - G & L guitars are great quality and have poor second hand value meaning you can pick one up cheap.
It makes me want to think about building one now!! Not sure about the small headstock though.... I love the shape though.... cool in an ugly sort of way!
Yes the cat has opposing thumbs and extra digits.
- mezcalhead
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... though
For me, the headstock has always been the visual weak point of the G & L.
Great guitars though .. one of my friends in Oz has one of their T-styles as his main guitar.
Great guitars though .. one of my friends in Oz has one of their T-styles as his main guitar.
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- matthew
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
Interesting concept Marc, I do like the look of that G&L bridge, it would look good on an offset body.
Unfortunately, the pickups, while I'm sure they are good pickups and will function like the XII's, just don't look right in my opinion. I don't mind the exposed pole pieces so much, but it is the way the two halves are joined that just looks clumsy and wrong. I don't see why the halves can't be separate (Perhaps too many were complaining about how much extra work it was to adjust the height of both pieces of the pickup ).
The XII neck is only a little wider (2/16ths of an inch) - I've compared the width of my XII and Jazzmaster at the neck pocket with regard to strings, and the XII strings do just fit within the Jazzmaster neck width, but are obviously fairly close to the edge. Whether that is a problem or not depends upon the way you play I guess.
If you are only going to use 6 of the strings, though you don't have to use the outer most saddles, but that might make the string spacing a little uneven.
Unfortunately, the pickups, while I'm sure they are good pickups and will function like the XII's, just don't look right in my opinion. I don't mind the exposed pole pieces so much, but it is the way the two halves are joined that just looks clumsy and wrong. I don't see why the halves can't be separate (Perhaps too many were complaining about how much extra work it was to adjust the height of both pieces of the pickup ).
The XII neck is only a little wider (2/16ths of an inch) - I've compared the width of my XII and Jazzmaster at the neck pocket with regard to strings, and the XII strings do just fit within the Jazzmaster neck width, but are obviously fairly close to the edge. Whether that is a problem or not depends upon the way you play I guess.
If you are only going to use 6 of the strings, though you don't have to use the outer most saddles, but that might make the string spacing a little uneven.
- mjet
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... though
I've been thinking the same thing, actually. I like the two-piece pickguard-and-control plate that the XII has, and if the pickguard could be cut a bit narrower to work with a DuoSonic bridge, that would work out well.
If one wants XII-ish pickups, Seymour Duncan's custom shop is ready to do them. (They did them for Fender Japan for use in the Venus XII a few years back.) And then the neck could have the large hockey-stick headstock but with just three tuners on each side, like the Maverick.
I must have one...I will have one...
If one wants XII-ish pickups, Seymour Duncan's custom shop is ready to do them. (They did them for Fender Japan for use in the Venus XII a few years back.) And then the neck could have the large hockey-stick headstock but with just three tuners on each side, like the Maverick.
I must have one...I will have one...
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- zhivago
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... though
the bridge is the biggest pain, I guess...the Musicmaster bridge could also do, but I'd have to get a pickguard modded for it.
I really want it to look right too...if it doesn't look as good as the mockup, then I'd rather not waste money on a project like this..might as well just put a cheap Jazzmaster together and use it as a backup...we'll see how it goes..
I have photoshopped some versions with bridges that are the approximate size of a MM bridge, and it doesn't look too bad...
photoshop mockups:
Marc should know this one
it doesn't look too bad witht he photoshopped smaller bridge....I've looked at loads of different Fenders with chrome control plates,
and in every single one, the bridge touches the control plate....that makes a very cool look...it gets lost with this, which kinda sucks...
....but I *should* be able to live with this :-\
I really want it to look right too...if it doesn't look as good as the mockup, then I'd rather not waste money on a project like this..might as well just put a cheap Jazzmaster together and use it as a backup...we'll see how it goes..
I have photoshopped some versions with bridges that are the approximate size of a MM bridge, and it doesn't look too bad...
photoshop mockups:
Marc should know this one
it doesn't look too bad witht he photoshopped smaller bridge....I've looked at loads of different Fenders with chrome control plates,
and in every single one, the bridge touches the control plate....that makes a very cool look...it gets lost with this, which kinda sucks...
....but I *should* be able to live with this :-\
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- Marc
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
hey that's my guitar! Cool Beanz is a stringer!
I think it looks fine without the bridge touching the chrome.
I think it looks fine without the bridge touching the chrome.
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- matthew
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
I agree - I think it looks fine. You're only really noticing the gap now because you thinking about the bridge so much. If you consider the guiatr as a whole, the smaller bridge won't be an issue, it will look good.
- zhivago
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... though
you're right guys....this bridge issue is turning to an obession...I honestly think about it every day!
it's just that I like things looking perfect...I can't help it, I'm a graphic designer, and I'm the same with work...I like every single detail to be right, I can spent hours lining up things up!!!
....I'm honestly not trying to be difficult!!
it's just that I like things looking perfect...I can't help it, I'm a graphic designer, and I'm the same with work...I like every single detail to be right, I can spent hours lining up things up!!!
....I'm honestly not trying to be difficult!!
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- Marc
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
well I just had the LPB apart to take photos under the guard etc.... I thought of taking the bridge apart but sorry - I would have to remove the intonation screws and reintonate to get it off and do a tracing. Suffice to say the bridge plate is massive!
I'm seeing Strat XII's regularly with the old style bridge for £275ish -isn't that almost what the guy sold the bridge for a few weeks ago?
Cheers Z
I'm seeing Strat XII's regularly with the old style bridge for £275ish -isn't that almost what the guy sold the bridge for a few weeks ago?
Cheers Z
Yes the cat has opposing thumbs and extra digits.
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... though
no problem manMarc wrote: well I just had the LPB apart to take photos under the guard etc.... I thought of taking the bridge apart but sorry - I would have to remove the intonation screws and reintonate to get it off and do a tracing. Suffice to say the bridge plate is massive!
I'm seeing Strat XII's regularly with the old style bridge for £275ish -isn't that almost what the guy sold the bridge for a few weeks ago?
Cheers Z
I realise taking off the bridge is a pain
you're right about the strat XII price....if I could spend £300 on the complete guitar and at least get £200 for the remaining parts, I'd be really happy
post the pics you took, if you can, I love seeing under the hood pics
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- Marc
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
OK this pic proves that a XII pickguard will fit a JM body (this is a JM pickguard over my XII and as you can see it lines up.
and here is some 'under the pickguard' porn for you...
and here is some 'under the pickguard' porn for you...
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- fullerplast
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
What's up with those tiny pics?
Couldn't you at least have shown some DETAIL?
Couldn't you at least have shown some DETAIL?
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- zhivago
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... though
heheh....big is beautiful!!!
thank you Marc, you've been great help with this!!!
thank you Marc, you've been great help with this!!!
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- Marc
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... thoughts..
whoops - wrong camera setting
i guess you could print it off and have a full size cut-out Fender XII?
i guess you could print it off and have a full size cut-out Fender XII?
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- zhivago
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Re: So Zhivago loves the look of XII but wants it to be a Six stringer... though
heheheh!Marc wrote: whoops - wrong camera setting
i guess you could print it off and have a full size cut-out Fender XII?
pretty much!
I like big pics
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