Let's talk ES-335

[djetz]

Any other ES-335 knock-offs people can recommend?

Starcaster! 

[shadowplay]

The Starfire III is not like a 335 at all since it's not blocked.

true that's why I like it!  The double cuts are all blocked.  My theory why Guilds game never dropped was that they never had 'the name' to fall back on, each instument was bought for what it was not what it signified.

Any other ES-335 knock-offs people can recommend?

Maybe one of the 80's Heritage 335's made in the old Gibson factory by ex gibson guys.

They can be really inexpensive; I was t a wedding recently and the guy in the band said his was only £400.  They probably would benefit from a new pick-guard and some might not like the snakehead shape headstock which is modeled on the original Gibson one but looks quite Aria.  Not this one as its broken.

[url]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1988-HERITAGE-H53 ... VQQcmdZVie

Yamahas 335 clones are really good too, some ibanez are tasty too.

[djetz]

Agree on the Yamaha and Ibanez semis - they don't get a lot of love from rockers, who tend to be into brand-name bling, but they're taken very seriously by jazzers, who are very much into quality. Most of the best jazzers of the last few decades play Ibanez or Yamaha, including the ones who could afford anything they wanted.

[chrisjedijane]

actually yeah, andy of Jedi Jane had an Ibanez semi that was really fantastic - he used it a lot for our stuff, and it's what he used on our recordings.

[Mr. Peabody]

Are there any tell tale signs that the Yamaha and Ibanez copies are from a good period? Were those the companies that Gibson sued in the 70s? And if so, are those period ones better? Thanks!

[monark]

Yeah, I've been thinking that myself - I have a '73 Guild S-100 that outshines any SG I've played, so maybe I'll get a Starfire IV. Do you have any advice on what is a good price to pay for a late 60s vs the 90s reissue SF-4?

Pun intended?

If so, well done.

haha, shit. i am only clever by accident. and yeah, as with any guitar purchase for me, 50% of the goal is aesthetic. i  don't think i could be seen with an ibanez or a yamaha. unless it was a good old lawsuit ibanez. did they do 335s then? my girlfriend has an old ibanez goldtop les paul and it has a bolt-on neck and feels crappy to me. supposedly it's from the lawsuit era though.

[northern_dirt]

haha, shit. i am only clever by accident. and yeah, as with any guitar purchase for me, 50% of the goal is aesthetic. i  don't think i could be seen with an ibanez or a yamaha. unless it was a good old lawsuit ibanez. did they do 335s then? my girlfriend has an old ibanez goldtop les paul and it has a bolt-on neck and feels crappy to me. supposedly it's from the lawsuit era though.

I understand this.. I have 2 Epi -Dots..
and won't go for another clone..

I likes the ES335, so I will one day get one.. but no more clones..

There was a tokai clone for sale a week or so ago up on CL TO for under $400..
I think..

[djetz]

The whole "lawsuit" thing has taken on a life of its own. People think the Japanese spent the whole 70s getting sued or something.

There was one case that got to court, basically it was decided that headstock shape was trademark-able, hence no accurate copies from anywhere any more. I can't recall for certain, but I believe it was Gibson suing Ibanez. Japanese manufacturers followed that ruling so they could continue getting access to foreign markets.

Right after that, in the late 70s/early 80s, the big US companies decided if they couldn't beat the Japanese, they should join them.

So... FujiGen, which already made Ibanez, Greco and Yamaha, started making Epiphone for Gibson. Nowadays, with Epi moved to Korea and China, they make Orville "by Gibson" guitars. It's all the same factory.

They also made Fender Japan for a while, but when MIJ became CIJ, it was because Tokai became Fender Japan.

There are other manufacturers, and there has been some swapping around of contracts, but that's the simple version.

What are called "lawsuit" guitars are any copies from the 70s, whether there was any connection with the one actual lawsuit or not.

The word "lawsuit" is really just a marketing word used by people trying to sell Japanese-made (usually) copies, it has no real meaning. So, a "lawsuit" guitar could be anything from shite to great. Simply being a product of the "lawsuit era" means nothing.

[mredhot]

Right, the guy's whole spiel smacked of guitar snob douchery. I can't even find anytihing about the Gibson factory fire except vague mentions of a small roof fire in Kalamazoo in the early 70s... I'm just wondering if anyone here has any more specific, credible advice based on their own experience.

Of course I would love to find a great player and snap it up based on getting my hands on it, the problem is that here in new york, the shops are just really expensive compared to what you can get on ebay and private sale, and affordable 335s don't seem to pop up on CL very often, so i might have to go ebay.

do you know if the fire was in all areas like effected all guitars from that period?

[monark]

yes I think all guitars from 1970 - 1980 are made from uncured smoke-damaged wood  :-\

[djetz]

yes I think all guitars from 1970 - 1980 are made from uncured smoke-damaged wood  :-\

I smell yet another urban guitar myth in the making. What, exactly, is your authority on that? Some guy told you? Did his friend's brother work in the Gibson factory in the 70s? Right, sure.

Sorry, but with the greatest respect, that's rubbish.

If there was a major fire, they'd have been insured and would have replaced damaged wood stocks.

If you believe that Gibson stored a decade's worth of wood supplies on premises, and that said warehouse (can you imagine how big that would have been?) was somehow smoke damaged without the wood being destroyed - again, how would that be possible on such a scale? - and that Gibson spent the next ten years using up that lumber for sub-standard guitars... that's insane. That's completely nuts.

Standard practice in guitar factories is to have a small storage area for lumber and relatively constant deliveries from a range of different suppliers depending on availability. That's how the business works, same as any business that makes things from wood. It's simply not economic to do it any other way.

The wood is air cured in the area where it's milled, and kiln dried at the guitar factory before use. It does not sit around at the factory for a decade or even for a year, a couple of months maximum is the limit, anything else is uneconomic. Many of those pieces of lumber go straight from the delivery truck to the wood kiln to the workshop.

[shadowplay]

I'd agree on the sentiments above.  If Gibson was hogging any wood stocks it would have been Brazilian Rosewood and the like and losing that's not going to impact electric making.  A more serious loss would have been in tooling and body bucks etc.  Perhaps the biggest setback would have been to morale and it's probably in the human element that Gibsons70's  quality decline resides.

[FireAarro]

yes I think all guitars from 1970 - 1980 are made from uncured smoke-damaged wood  :-\

I smell yet another urban guitar myth in the making. What, exactly, is your authority on that? Some guy told you? Did his friend's brother work in the Gibson factory in the 70s? Right, sure.

Sorry, but with the greatest respect, that's rubbish.

I think he was making a funny.

[monark]

that was a joke dudes

[Tommy Horchata]

All jokes aside, I really love my '76 LP standard.  Any guitar snob can tell me that Gibson didn't make a good guitar during that time period and I won't ever believe another thing they say.

one man's junk is another man's treasure.