Re: Gibson 67 SG w/ p90's

[StevenO]

Ugh seeing that pic makes me want to get the p90 sg again. I just don't like the dots, or rather I prefer the trapezoid inlays.

Was Pete using a p90 SG on 'Live at Leeds'?

Yep!

But to be fair, the p90s that gibson uses in the SG Classic don't quite sound like the vintage ones that Pete used. I prefer the vintage ones, but you can easily have them switched out for vintage ones from Novak or Lollar if you cared. They sound good, just a bit dull in comparison.

[Surfoverb]

You could always put one of those Les-trems on them. I've thought about putting one on my SG Classic, but I rarely ever play mine so I'd rather keep mine stock.

I like the look of the trems on SG's but I would never use it either. Those 'classics' are sweet I played one at GC the other day.

[GUITARmole]

that's nice to hear, since i've been considering putting a vibrola on my upcoming SG project.

My advice it to try one first and decide for yourself!  I decided against it for my SG project(s).  If I was to put a bar on the SG it would be a Bigsgy.

[Surfoverb]

But to be fair, the p90s that gibson uses in the SG Classic don't quite sound like the vintage ones that Pete used... They sound good, just a bit dull in comparison.

Isnt that always the case? 

So out of these 4 which would you get:

61 RI
67 RI w/ p90's
standard
angus young

These are my only choices...Basically I'll be playing anything from classic 60's-style rock (Blue Cheer/The Who) to Link Wray-style instro's with it.

[flatfiver]

I think I'd have to vote for the '67 RI w/P-90s.  Or look for a used Pete Townsend Signature SG!

[chrisjedijane]

+1 -  I'd go for the '67 RI w/ P90's, or a Pete Townshend sig if you can find one too!

[StevenO]

Agreed, although I've never played any of them, so take that for what it's worth.

[luau]

Ugh seeing that pic makes me want to get the p90 sg again. I just don't like the dots, or rather I prefer the trapezoid inlays.

Was Pete using a p90 SG on 'Live at Leeds'?

Yep!

But to be fair, the p90s that gibson uses in the SG Classic don't quite sound like the vintage ones that Pete used. I prefer the vintage ones, but you can easily have them switched out for vintage ones from Novak or Lollar if you cared. They sound good, just a bit dull in comparison.

Pot values would be a factor too. Classics are 300k and I'd expect 500ks in a pre-early-70s Gibson. I'm not claiming that modern pickups are the equal of vintage pickups, far from it,  but with a discrepancy in pot value that wide I don't think you can accurately judge two pickups. Especially for 'dullness'.

[berlinbetty]

what's a vibrola?  excuse my ignorance.

 That's what they call the vibrato device you see on SGs.  Also called a "Lyre" (for the engraving on it) or a "Maestro" (for the company that made--makes?-- them).  
 If I can stick in my own two cents on the vibrola... if you've ever had the chance to try a vintage one versus a new one (and, to be fair, the only new ones I've tried were Epiphone or Allparts versions) they are much smoother and not as stiff.  So, if you can swing it, I recommend picking up a vintage.

[luau]

These are my only choices...Basically I'll be playing anything from classic 60's-style rock (Blue Cheer/The Who) to Link Wray-style instro's with it.

Without having played them all, I'd get the '67 Special. But then it kind of bugs me that it has the green keys instead of the white button keys and I sort of like big necks so I'd get the Classic. 

[StevenO]

Ugh seeing that pic makes me want to get the p90 sg again. I just don't like the dots, or rather I prefer the trapezoid inlays.

Was Pete using a p90 SG on 'Live at Leeds'?

Yep!

But to be fair, the p90s that gibson uses in the SG Classic don't quite sound like the vintage ones that Pete used. I prefer the vintage ones, but you can easily have them switched out for vintage ones from Novak or Lollar if you cared. They sound good, just a bit dull in comparison.

Pot values would be a factor too. Classics are 300k and I'd expect 500ks in a pre-early-70s Gibson. I'm not claiming that modern pickups are the equal of vintage pickups, far from it,  but with a discrepancy in pot value that wide I don't think you can accurately judge two pickups. Especially for 'dullness'.

Actually, I believe the ones in mine are 500k. I'll go check though... If they're 300k pots, then that's good. It's simple to change the pots, especially if it means a better sound.

DON'T GET ME WRONG! I like the way the pickups sounds. I think they sound great with distortion, but with clean, in my mind, they lack, unlike a vintage example. They have a very nice smooth overdriven sound on the neck pickup and very nice, full distortion sound on the bridge pickup. The pickups also feedback very nicely, no squeals or anything like that.

Edit: I don't want to take remove the pots from my SG Classic, but I'm just going to go ahead and assume they're 300k like you said, luau. I took apart my SG before and I could have swore they were 500k the last time I removed them. I might replace them in the future...

[Surfoverb]

it kind of bugs me that it has the green keys instead of the white button keys

Me too! There are a few bad reviews on those keys as well. It would be easy to replace them with govers though right?

[luau]

DON'T GET ME WRONG! I like the way the pickups sounds. I think they sound great with distortion, but with clean, in my mind, they lack, unlike a vintage example. They have a very nice smooth overdriven sound on the neck pickup and very nice, full distortion sound on the bridge pickup. The pickups also feedback very nicely, no squeals or anything like that.

Agreed. I think that in comparison to vintage (although it's been some time since I've played on a guitar so equipped) the new ones are kind of like the AVRI JM pups:  pretty damn good but a touch bright/sterile/harsh.

I seem to get the best clean tones on my P90 guitars in the middle position with the bridge tone and neck volume rolled back a bit. This is problematic for me on the Classic as the tone pot tapers on both tone controls are sorely lacking. They are more of an on/off switch at 8 or 9. How are yours?

edit: Another question. My neck pickup has a higher DC resistance than my bridge pickup. I've read that some think this is how a P90 guitar should be arranged for best balance but I'm not sure I agree. Have you measured yours?

[luau]

it kind of bugs me that it has the green keys instead of the white button keys

Me too! There are a few bad reviews on those keys as well. It would be easy to replace them with govers though right?

It's all aesthetics as far as I'm concerned. If they're going to call it a '67 reissue, put the right tuners on it. The same could be said for their entire line of Historic LPs too though.  I have a set of the green keys on my 175 and the white buttons on my Classic. They are both decent tuners and the only difference I can see is the plastic. Neither set has tuning stability problems, excessive back lash, or overly coarse ratios. I wouldn't plan on changing tuners for any mechanical reason.

The main complaints I've seen against the green ones is that they don't look -exactly- like the green ones that were made 50 years ago.

[GUITARmole]

I know I'll get flamed for this (every time I dis the much worshiped "GOTOH" I get nasty replies by fans of those tuners)...but I hate Gotoh made tuners.

I've also had bad luck with the Keystone type made by both Schaller and Grover.  I think the Schallers got rough and the Grover Kluson style had the backs pop off.

The BEST vintage style tuners I've ever used are the current Kluson branded or Tone Pros Kluson.  The TonePros have an improved feel and the plastic buttons are actually close to vintage (more yellowish...not so fake green).  They are smooth, the finish on them is great (nickel OR chrome), and they hold tune and last.  YES...I KNOW they are likely made by Ping in China or something but I don't give a flying fook.  They're much better than the other "Kluson" style tuners by Gotoh, Grover, or Schaller...plus they have the vintage correct "Kluson" stamping and don't cost any more either.

The TonePros are a little better but a little more expensive.  The plain Kluson branded ones are more vintage accurate.  Both are great!

http://www.toneproskluson.com/