Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
- Telliot
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Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
It looks as though I've finally found my forever electric 12-string.
I've had several Danelectros, but fuck their owner. Every Rick I've played felt weird in my hands (although I still seriously considered buying one from an OSG forumite recently ), and as much as I love the idea of owning a Fender XII I just can't get myself to pull the trigger on one. I've been on the hunt for something that checked all the right boxes for me: nut width, neck section, string spacing, playability, and of course SOUND.
Anyway, after many months and much research, I came across the Guild Starfire XII. There isn't a ton of info out there on these, and the only 2 stories I kept coming across were one where Mark Dronge - the son of Guild Guitars founder, Alfred Dronge, presented John Lennon and George Harrison with one of the first production models at the Warwick Hotel in NYC, in 1966. Apparently George assumed the guitar was for him since he was known as the 12-string player in the band, and was annoyed when Dronge passed him and presented it to John. The story goes that John took it and used it a bit in his home studio, but was never that into it, and it ended up with George anyway.
The other bit that I kept coming across was that Susanna Hoffs has one and has used it on every record she's ever made. Even though she's known for using Ricks, she loves her Starfire to death and refuses to take it out on the road, fearing it could get damaged.
Anyway, on to this particular guitar. I bought it from a shop in Nashville, who told me it belonged to a retiring studio player who used it for decades on countless recordings. I didn't ask who it was or which recordings, but I'm sure the used music shops in the areas surrounding Nashville have loads of similar stories. Of course, being a vintage Guild (and owning a '66 Starfire III years ago), I'm aware of the inherent issues a lot of them have. I made sure to ask lots of questions regarding the neck angle and general structural integrity of the guitar. I was a little nervous about it, but they had a fair return policy, so I made them an offer which was accepted (the price was already lower than the other examples I found for sale). True to their word, it arrived exactly as described: an incredible player, with insanely low action, and absolutely solid in every regard. I played it for HOURS last night and could not believe how amazing it is.
Sound wise, it has a lot of overlap with your typical Rickenbacker jangle, but thicker due to the mini HBs (the bridge pickup gets really close, honestly). The nut width is 1 11/16 (typical Guild spec for the time), and doesn't feel cramped in any way. The neck section is a very full C, or maybe even a D, which is important to me. The string spacing is comfortable, and the guitar is very well balanced; no neck dive whatsoever. The binding is nicely yellowed but isn't deteriorated or cracking, and there is lots of play wear and checking throughout. The Grovers are the only thing not original, but they have a nice ratio to them and hold tune very well. Whoever owned this guitar before me used and loved it quite a lot, that is immediately apparent, and I feel lucky to have it now. This is a guitar I will leave to my kids someday.
In the meantime, I plan to play the shit out of it.
From The Guild Guitar Book :
From the Reverb ad:
Home:
I've had several Danelectros, but fuck their owner. Every Rick I've played felt weird in my hands (although I still seriously considered buying one from an OSG forumite recently ), and as much as I love the idea of owning a Fender XII I just can't get myself to pull the trigger on one. I've been on the hunt for something that checked all the right boxes for me: nut width, neck section, string spacing, playability, and of course SOUND.
Anyway, after many months and much research, I came across the Guild Starfire XII. There isn't a ton of info out there on these, and the only 2 stories I kept coming across were one where Mark Dronge - the son of Guild Guitars founder, Alfred Dronge, presented John Lennon and George Harrison with one of the first production models at the Warwick Hotel in NYC, in 1966. Apparently George assumed the guitar was for him since he was known as the 12-string player in the band, and was annoyed when Dronge passed him and presented it to John. The story goes that John took it and used it a bit in his home studio, but was never that into it, and it ended up with George anyway.
The other bit that I kept coming across was that Susanna Hoffs has one and has used it on every record she's ever made. Even though she's known for using Ricks, she loves her Starfire to death and refuses to take it out on the road, fearing it could get damaged.
Anyway, on to this particular guitar. I bought it from a shop in Nashville, who told me it belonged to a retiring studio player who used it for decades on countless recordings. I didn't ask who it was or which recordings, but I'm sure the used music shops in the areas surrounding Nashville have loads of similar stories. Of course, being a vintage Guild (and owning a '66 Starfire III years ago), I'm aware of the inherent issues a lot of them have. I made sure to ask lots of questions regarding the neck angle and general structural integrity of the guitar. I was a little nervous about it, but they had a fair return policy, so I made them an offer which was accepted (the price was already lower than the other examples I found for sale). True to their word, it arrived exactly as described: an incredible player, with insanely low action, and absolutely solid in every regard. I played it for HOURS last night and could not believe how amazing it is.
Sound wise, it has a lot of overlap with your typical Rickenbacker jangle, but thicker due to the mini HBs (the bridge pickup gets really close, honestly). The nut width is 1 11/16 (typical Guild spec for the time), and doesn't feel cramped in any way. The neck section is a very full C, or maybe even a D, which is important to me. The string spacing is comfortable, and the guitar is very well balanced; no neck dive whatsoever. The binding is nicely yellowed but isn't deteriorated or cracking, and there is lots of play wear and checking throughout. The Grovers are the only thing not original, but they have a nice ratio to them and hold tune very well. Whoever owned this guitar before me used and loved it quite a lot, that is immediately apparent, and I feel lucky to have it now. This is a guitar I will leave to my kids someday.
In the meantime, I plan to play the shit out of it.
From The Guild Guitar Book :
From the Reverb ad:
Home:
Last edited by Telliot on Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.
- BoringPostcards
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
Awesome. I love Starfires so much. Good score!
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
MAZEL TOV!!!
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.
- antisymmetric
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
Lovely guitar, and it's found the right owner.
Watching the corners turn corners
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
Great looking machine! Bucket-list XII for sure!
(I was peeping that one on Reverb, I think)
Glad it landed with such an appreciative player!
What's the scale length on these? *EDIT* Nevermind- 24 3/4"
(I was peeping that one on Reverb, I think)
Glad it landed with such an appreciative player!
What's the scale length on these? *EDIT* Nevermind- 24 3/4"
- SWFC68
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
That's a beauty. I love the color. I'm totally ignorant about vintage Guilds; what are the inherent issues you mentioned?
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
Vintage set neck guitars are well known for needing their necks reset, but Guilds seem to be more problematic to fix than other manufacturers. I've gotten several explanations about this, and maybe it's a combination of them that's actually true. For example, I've been told some models used a more complicated neck joint than your typical guitar, and I've also been told the glue they used was stronger than what other manufacturers were using at the time. In both cases, it means a longer time under steam to get the joint to loosen and separate. On top of that, the way they painted the heels in nitro directly on the neck/body joint makes it easy to damage during the steaming process. Whatever the case, the result of all this is there are luthiers out there who will overcharge or flat out refuse to do resets on old Guilds because they are afraid of the scope of work to get it back together and looking good again.
Once you get the neck angle corrected, there's the issue of the height of your pickups. Because they're essentially a fixed height (on the riser), you may need to reduce the riser height to correct the distance to the strings. On my old Starfire III, this was the case. It could be the neck was never set to the correct angle in the first place and so the risers were too high to begin with, hard to say. If the guitar is a hollowbody or acoustic, the bracing should be checked as well.
Other things to look out for is the laminated faceplate on the headstocks often shrink over the years, causing cracks or issues with the tuning pegs. My Starfire III had a bit of that but not so bad it affected anything. On their old acoustics, the shrinking pickguard often cracked the soundboard, but this can be seen on old Martins and Gibsons too. Again, this isn't just a Guild thing, but Guilds have gained a reputation for being harder to restore, which I think is a shame because they're simply amazing guitars, and in my opinion, definitely on par with the Fenders, Martins, Gibsons, and Rickenbackers of the world.
Last edited by Telliot on Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
Interesting! Thanks for the info
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
Todd, that's one reason I parted with my '61 Starfire III. It was a hot mess.
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
- Telliot
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
Ugh, it was so beautiful, I loved the Dynasonics on yours! Luckily this XII possesses none of those issues. It's an absolute keeper.
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
I know! Oh, and the bridge Dyna was self-destructing and probably needed a rewind.
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
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Re: Off the beaten path NGD - 1966 Guild Starfire XII
Class act and very 'you'! I never feel jealous but...I'm getting ghost tingles...so thanks for nothing pal!
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Are you loathsome tonight?