The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:52 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:24 am
How are you liking the pickups?
Weird to get used to as a non-PAF guy. So much of my playing has evolved in the context of bright single coils with sharp attack, so if I use it to play stuff I normally play the way I normally play it on my main guitars, it sounds thuddy and lifeless.

But once I started working with the guitar instead of fighting against it, I slowly began playing better to its strengths. The middle pickup position is by far my favourite. There's some magic there that I've never heard in another one of my guitars. With a capo on, middle pickup position, I found myself playing it fingerstyle much like I would an acoustic guitar, and Bruce Cockburn type stuff sounds incredible.

Single note lines on the neck pickup have a thickness and body I'm not used to, and I found I could solo with it with very low gain because the blunted attack and long natural sustain made it work. I've never been much of a solo guy, though, but I'm sure I'll figure out what to do with it.

The bridge pickup remains a bit of an enigma. It does a certain type of thing very well, but that thing really isn't my thing. I'm used to only using bridge pickups for very cutting tones and that's not what this guitar wants to do. I instantly recognized that it sounds like a million famous recordings of PAF guitars on their bridge pickup, but that's by and large a tone I've always found rather boring. It's like it's daring me to play along to a "classic rock" radio station or join a blues band with a bunch of other middle class white guys, and I'm trying my best to politely decline.

I know the middle position is pretty commonly prized by 335 players, and now I totally get it. It's like all the things that I want to play on this guitar sound the best in that position. It's funny, because I'm probably 60% neck/30% bridge/10% middle position on my other two-pickup guitars, but so far it's 10% neck/90% middle/0% bridge on the 335.

But it's really a hard guitar to put down. The feedback it gives in the form of its acoustic response is kind of addictive. I do not find the Gibson sunburst or 335 shape appealing in the slightest, but the feel of the neck and the response of the guitar once I pick it up makes me forget about all that. It's really challenged my perception of electric guitars.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by luau » Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:02 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:12 am
luau wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:25 am
Thanks the warm welcome, Larry, it was great meeting you as well. The amp, a Fender Frontman 15g, sounds really good. I was pleasantly surprised and really appreciate it.

Glad the saddles are working out. I think I'm going to follow your Faber recommendation on my Deluxe and see where that takes me.
Yeah, that amp really isn't bad for a $30 used amp, is it? I could honestly see it being useful for recording at some point.

Just remember with the Faber iNsert stuff that it's really not reversible. I don't think you would ever regret it, but I feel you might want to know that, and who knows what this might do to the value of a vintage instrument (which I think yours is).
Yeah, it's quiet, sounds good, and nothing rattles. It's a hell of a bargain. I haven't messed with the dirty side yet, but will give it a try this week.

Noted on the Faber conversion. My Deluxe is a 2004 and isn't anything special so it's going to get the screw in posts and it's going to like it. I'm glad to hear the positive feedback on it.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:06 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:52 am
Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:24 am
How are you liking the pickups?
Weird to get used to as a non-PAF guy. So much of my playing has evolved in the context of bright single coils with sharp attack, so if I use it to play stuff I normally play the way I normally play it on my main guitars, it sounds thuddy and lifeless.
I hear you. After years with just my Jazzmaster, I bought a Telecaster and next a Les Paul Studio. As I played my Les Paul, all I kept thinking was "I sound like fucking Bad Company."

I was shocked and horrified at myself.

I later was able to wrap my mind around it to a degree.

I don't tend to like the bridge pickup by itself on any guitar, really. If you keep it, maybe a blend knob might be a good investment.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:07 pm

luau wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:02 am


Noted on the Faber conversion. My Deluxe is a 2004 and isn't anything special so it's going to get the screw in posts and it's going to like it. I'm glad to hear the positive feedback on it.
Oh, I didn't know. So, let me ask you- I would love a Deluxe, but can't find the scratch for a vintage one. Have you played the Norlin era ones much? How does this one compare, if so? If not, are you very pleased with your reissue?
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Gavanti » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:16 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:52 am

Weird to get used to as a non-PAF guy. So much of my playing has evolved in the context of bright single coils with sharp attack, so if I use it to play stuff I normally play the way I normally play it on my main guitars, it sounds thuddy and lifeless.

But once I started working with the guitar instead of fighting against it, I slowly began playing better to its strengths. The middle pickup position is by far my favourite. There's some magic there that I've never heard in another one of my guitars. With a capo on, middle pickup position, I found myself playing it fingerstyle much like I would an acoustic guitar, and Bruce Cockburn type stuff sounds incredible.
I'm definitely another victim of this thread and absolutely hear you on these points. I've had a couple of Epiphone semi-hollows in the past, which I liked well enough, but one was really heavy and the other a victim of other interests. I liked the look of this 2018 that a guy who had been touring with it internationally had for sale and took a chance on it, figuring if it had worked out for him professionally it was probably a decent guitar. After I set it up to my liking and got used to how it handled and the tonal dynamics, it turned out to be really fun to play and definitely fits in sonically differently than my other guitars.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:22 pm

Gavanti wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:16 pm


Image
That looks exactly like the one I had, except for the Bigsby. I wonder if that was added later.

It was a tremendous guitar. I ended up preferring the one I kept, but I was halfway tempted to keep them both, it was that good.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:31 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:22 pm
That looks exactly like the one I had, except for the Bigsby. I wonder if that was added later.

It was a tremendous guitar. I ended up preferring the one I kept, but I was halfway tempted to keep them both, it was that good.
The plugged stop tailpiece holes and chrome vs nickel tells me it was.

Beautiful guitar, though. I'd be happier if mine was black like that instead of sunburst. The Gibson burst just doesn't work for me. Maybe I'll warm up to it.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:56 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:31 pm


The plugged stop tailpiece holes and chrome vs nickel tells me it was.

Beautiful guitar, though. I'd be happier if mine was black like that instead of sunburst. The Gibson burst just doesn't work for me. Maybe I'll warm up to it.
Yeah, almost certainly it was, but Gibson does make some models on which they drill the TOM holes and then put the vintage accurate plate on there where holes would have been had a Bigby unit been fitted later, although no TOM was ever on it... "Custom" or something?

I think maybe the Rich Robinson model might have that.

https://www.chicagomusicexchange.com/pr ... 14-1210296

Like I say, I'm virtually certain this is the ES-335 "Traditional" like I had, which had a slightly thicker neck than the one I kept, but still great. But I've learned to not really ever say that I know exactly what any Gibson model is immediately, they make so much stuff.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by luau » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:07 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:07 pm
luau wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:02 am


Noted on the Faber conversion. My Deluxe is a 2004 and isn't anything special so it's going to get the screw in posts and it's going to like it. I'm glad to hear the positive feedback on it.
Oh, I didn't know. So, let me ask you- I would love a Deluxe, but can't find the scratch for a vintage one. Have you played the Norlin era ones much? How does this one compare, if so? If not, are you very pleased with your reissue?
I've played Norlin era Deluxes and a Pro Deluxe, which had P90s, but it has been a long while. I've got a Norlin Custom from '76 I've had since I was 15 and have played the shit out of. Honestly, with the Deluxe debuting in '69 and Norlin gobbling up Gibson in '70, I'm not sure how much difference there really is there to justify the massive increase in price apart from rarity.

My '04 Deluxe, a special run specifically for Musicians Friend, has a solid mahogany neck, no volute of course, and a weight-relieved mahogany body with a maple cap. With the Norlins you'll get thin multi-piece necks with volutes, bigger headstocks, multi-multi-piece bodies, Nashville bridges and so on. Mine is right at 9lbs, so about what you should more or less expect no matter which way you'd go. I'm happy enough with it. It has somewhat narrower frets than you'd expect, but the neck shape, a semi-shallow C, is really nice. I'm happy with the pickups.

If I were going to buy one today, the current 70s Deluxe would pique my interest despite the Nashville bridge. The construction is superior, IMO, 1 piece neck, non-weight-relieved body, and a MSRP of $2500 is less than you're going to spend for a decent Norlin model. I kind of like new guitars, too. That said, if I happened across a Norlin that did it for me, I'd give it equal consideration and wouldn't shy away from it.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:12 pm

luau wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:07 pm


If I were going to buy one today, the current 70s Deluxe would pique my interest despite the Nashville bridge. The construction is superior, IMO, 1 piece neck, non-weight-relieved body, and a MSRP of $2500 is less than you're going to spend for a decent Norlin model. I kind of like new guitars, too. That said, if I happened across a Norlin that did it for me, I'd give it equal consideration and wouldn't shy away from it.
Good advice, I like the looks of that. No Nashville bridge is on any Gibson of mine by the next morning, I despise them.

I like Norlin guitars a lot, and I fell in love with the '81 Deluxe I got to play a while back. It felt incredible to me, and I don't quite know why, but I'll guess that Gibson back then was using the "fretless wonder" super flat frets on the guitars then, and I don't think the reissues do.

How much that matters I don't know, though. Does it matter thousand dollars to me, you know? That's what I don't know.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by luau » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:21 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:12 pm
luau wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:07 pm


If I were going to buy one today, the current 70s Deluxe would pique my interest despite the Nashville bridge. The construction is superior, IMO, 1 piece neck, non-weight-relieved body, and a MSRP of $2500 is less than you're going to spend for a decent Norlin model. I kind of like new guitars, too. That said, if I happened across a Norlin that did it for me, I'd give it equal consideration and wouldn't shy away from it.
Good advice, I like the looks of that. No Nashville bridge is on any Gibson of mine by the next morning, I despise them.

I like Norlin guitars a lot, and I fell in love with the '81 Deluxe I got to play a while back. It felt incredible to me, and I don't quite know why, but I'll guess that Gibson back then was using the "fretless wonder" super flat frets on the guitars then, and I don't think the reissues do.

How much that matters I don't know, though. Does it matter thousand dollars to me, you know? That's what I don't know.
Yeah, I love those frets as well and that's the first thing that springs to mind when I think Norlin. Despite having a couple P90 LPs already, I probably wouldn't hesitate to snatch up a cherry sunburst Pro Deluxe just for the frets if the right one happened along at the right time.

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Gavanti » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:43 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:31 pm
Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:22 pm
That looks exactly like the one I had, except for the Bigsby. I wonder if that was added later.

It was a tremendous guitar. I ended up preferring the one I kept, but I was halfway tempted to keep them both, it was that good.
The plugged stop tailpiece holes and chrome vs nickel tells me it was.

Beautiful guitar, though. I'd be happier if mine was black like that instead of sunburst. The Gibson burst just doesn't work for me. Maybe I'll warm up to it.
I believe it's an Anchor Stud Bigsby model, meant to look like some of the early ones where they plugged the holes left from a Bigsby conversion. I really like black archtops for some reason. I don't mind the sunburst, but the pelham blue ones of this model look pretty stunning. What's a little odd though is the Grovers, which are not standard, but the seller said were factory. I wondered if either he was able to order them custom either because this is something you can just do(is it?) or because he's a pro. There was a very similar model the same year with a stopbar and Grovers. Maybe somewhere in the bankruptcy some parts got mixed together?

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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:09 pm

Let's see that burst, Mike!
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:12 pm

Gavanti wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:43 pm


I believe it's an Anchor Stud Bigsby model, meant to look like some of the early ones where they plugged the holes left from a Bigsby conversion. I really like black archtops for some reason. I don't mind the sunburst, but the pelham blue ones of this model look pretty stunning. What's a little odd though is the Grovers, which are not standard, but the seller said were factory. I wondered if either he was able to order them custom either because this is something you can just do(is it?) or because he's a pro. There was a very similar model the same year with a stopbar and Grovers. Maybe somewhere in the bankruptcy some parts got mixed together?
There you go... I knew they were making some that created the illusion that these guitars were retrofitted Bigsby guitars but weren't actually.

Great look, though.

And that second one you list is the second one I had. It was a wonderful guitar. Thicker neck than I have now, but it worked better for certain things like lead lines.

I agree with you, Mike, the ES guitars have a certain playability that is unique to them. Even by Gibson standards, always high, the ES series really stand out for great playing instruments from what I can tell. Like I say, it seems like Gibson really cares about these.
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Re: The Psychology of GASing for a Gibson (es-335)

Post by Embenny » Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:17 pm

Gavanti wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:43 pm
I believe it's an Anchor Stud Bigsby model, meant to look like some of the early ones where they plugged the holes left from a Bigsby conversion. I really like black archtops for some reason. I don't mind the sunburst, but the pelham blue ones of this model look pretty stunning. What's a little odd though is the Grovers, which are not standard, but the seller said were factory. I wondered if either he was able to order them custom either because this is something you can just do(is it?) or because he's a pro. There was a very similar model the same year with a stopbar and Grovers. Maybe somewhere in the bankruptcy some parts got mixed together?
Whoah, I stand corrected. I should have known better than to presume my Fender and Gretsch knowledge. Pull be extrapolated into Gibson land. Thanks for the info!

Also, mine also has Grovers. Is that not the standard tuner on these? The last owner put on locking Grovers but included what he said were original tuners, which are non-locking Grovers, and there are no covered-up extras screw holes or anything so I believe him.
Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:09 pm
Let's see that burst, Mike!
Image

Image

It's a very well-executed burst, and it's lovely to the touch. There's a bit of patina (it's old enough to get good insurance rates on a rental car, after all) and the feeling of the neck is sublime. So really, it's probably in poor taste for me to complain about how my wonderful, expensive guitar doesn't look the way I like.

And I know you love your sunbursts. I'm quite the opposite. I find 2- and 3-tone sunburst terribly boring for reasons I can't quite articulate. Something about the traditional teardrop shape seems especially weird. It's like the binding is defining this classic ES shape and the sunburst is like "I wanted to be a mandolin."

Image

Although, ironically, the Gibson teardrop-shaped/"A"-style mandolins actually have less of a teardrop-shaped burst than the 335.

I shouldn't sound so grumpy about my lovely, inspiring, superbly-built Gibson. I probably have some internalized "Fender's approach to burst was best!" narrative kicking around my subconscious from when I decided as a worldly and experienced 13 year-old that Fender rules and Gibson drools.

I got this guitar thinking, "great, this solves my Eastwood shitbox problem and I gained overall trade value for when I flip it for something I actually want" but I have to say, it's making a much more compelling argument for keeping it than I expected. My Pelham blue Firebird was infinitely more to my taste visually, but frankly didn't play nearly as well as this 335 and as you know, was unshielded and absurdly noisy.

This 335 is dead quiet (which is lucky, since shielding a hollow guitar is a nightmare, as you also know) and I played it yesterday literally until my hands needed a break, which isn't something many guitars inspire me to do. Usually I end up swapping instruments around or willfully putting it down, but I entered a time vortex last night playing it where the hours flew by.

I now feel sufficiently motivated to go to my local store to try one of those new Epiphone 335s (and some new Gibsons too), so I can see if it's just that I'm discovering I like 335 style guitars, or if this one is really particularly good. I was surprised enough by this 335 that I'll keep an open mind about being surprised by the Epiphone. It would certainly be a lovely discovery for my bottom line if I could sell this and use 1/5th of the money to buy an Epiphone, but I've got a suspicion that the acoustic response of the guitar is a big part of the playing experience that I'm enjoying so much.

I also wouldn't mind checking out some 339s or other alternatives that are a little smaller. I'm 5'6" and the 335 feels unnecessarily large on me.

Are Starcasters or Bilt Volares as acoustically responsive as this? Am I just now realizing as a lifelong acoustic guitarist that I should have been checking out hollow and semihollow electrics? Literally the first time I owned anything hollower than a Thinline Fender was this past year, when I traded for Steve's (surfysonic) beautiful Gretsch. It was a great guitar but was like three times as bulky as this 335 and was truly cumbersome for me to play while standing, so it ended up back with him in a second trade not long after.

I'm liking the thinner depth of the 335 but the idea of shaving down the size to a 339 seems ideal, if 339s sound and feel like this, at least.
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