New Epiphone semi-hollow guitars for 2020 (Riviera, Worn Casino, ES-335, )

[BoringPostcards]

Isn't the Epiphone Dot a 335?

Yes, but a more spartan one (thinner binding around the body, no binding around the fretboard). But the Dot wasn't made in the "golden era" of the 1960's.

The earliest 335s had no binding on the neck and thinner binding along the body. So, the Dot is accurate, just not in relation to vintage Epiphone?

https://cartervintage.com/products/gibson-es-335n-1959

[Shadoweclipse13]

Some of these are nice looking and I've been wanting a semi-hollow/hollow-body with P90s for a while. But, the few places I've looked make it seem like Gibson has left us lefties behind again.

[sookwinder]

The earliest 335s had no binding on the neck and thinner binding along the body. So, the Dot is accurate, just not in relation to vintage Epiphone?

Yes, correct. As I mentioned there was no equivalent of the 335 (dot or not dot) in the 60s Epiphone semi hollow body range.

[BoringPostcards]

The earliest 335s had no binding on the neck and thinner binding along the body. So, the Dot is accurate, just not in relation to vintage Epiphone?

Yes, correct. As I mentioned there was no equivalent of the 335 (dot or not dot) in the 60s Epiphone semi hollow body range.

Thanks, Sook.
I am really tempted by the Riviera. The only one I've played was Nick Valensi from the Strokes' signature model, which has some sort of humbucker sized single coil.
I wonder how close these 2020 Rivieras are in regards to the minihums.
The only actual vintage Epiphones I have played were the Coronet/Crestwood styles and an old pre Gibson archtop, which was one of the best guitars I ever touched.
I may have played a vintage Casino at some point, because I know a few guys with them.

[Larry Mal]

I happened to watch this review of the new Epiphone Firebird.

For the most part, the Firebirds that Epiphone has made over the years haven't been very good or really anything close to what a Firebird is supposed to be. I'm talking about major differences like set neck instead of through-body construction and all that.

But it seems clear that Epiphone now simply makes guitars that are more or less the same as Gibson does, since you can see in this video that they are using a genuine 9-ply laminate in the through-body portion of the Epiphone Firebird now. That's not only accurate, but it's also quite a bit more expensive than it has to be.

I could still quibble with some of the choices here, like the Grover tuners, however I also see those on Gibson Firebirds right now so it seems kind of like while Gibson is giving with one hand it's also taking away with the other here.

But anyway, a Firebird for $600 is something I never really thought I would see.

[Flurko]

The new solidbodies actually make me look forward to finding spare epiphone "bikini" headstock badges and tremotones, I have a Korean Epiphone SG that I love dearly but I'd like to make it more of an epiphone, without spending a fortune on cosmetic parts.

[seenoevil II]

It makes you wonder who gibson has in mind with these. Is it beginners on a budget? Or collectors who want an affordable way into some of the more arcane models. I mean I no reason not to think zoomers are into PJ Harvey and Johnny Winters. But...

[MrFingers]

I think a bit of both. Those who want those tasty and unique models from the 1960's at an affordable price-point, as well as those who want the Gibson-flavour but can't afford them yet. Basically what Squier does for Fender now: create brand-loyalty. They likely noticed they got their arses handed to them by the likes of Eastman (although those aren't budget-budget either), Tokai,... and on top noticed that other brands have tremendous success with bringing out reissue guitars around the 600-1200k pricemark (Guild Newark Street, Gretsch Electromatic,...)

[rbrcbr]

Some of these are nice looking and I've been wanting a semi-hollow/hollow-body with P90s for a while. But, the few places I've looked make it seem like Gibson has left us lefties behind again.

Idk if you saw my post earlier with the 2020 USA Casino but they are issuing those in lefty versions as well! Just a bit steep, $2699.

[seenoevil II]

This also makes you wonder how gibson used to make both product lines simultaneously back in the day with less automaton and so much variety.

I can't wait for the inevitable shoot out videos comparing the gibsons v inspos. Especially the acoustics now that they're all solids. It seems they've returned to the mid tier without getting Japan involved.

[Larry Mal]

It makes you wonder who gibson has in mind with these. Is it beginners on a budget? Or collectors who want an affordable way into some of the more arcane models. I mean I no reason not to think zoomers are into PJ Harvey and Johnny Winters. But...

I think guitar makers have come to realize that they can sell people an awful lot of guitars. That is to say, people that like guitar will buy a dozen, two dozen of the things. So they have come to conclude that if they make the product good enough, and price it low enough, they can make a lot of money by selling more guitars even if at a lower profit per guitar.

[BoringPostcards]

Some of these are nice looking and I've been wanting a semi-hollow/hollow-body with P90s for a while. But, the few places I've looked make it seem like Gibson has left us lefties behind again.

Idk if you saw my post earlier with the 2020 USA Casino but they are issuing those in lefty versions as well! Just a bit steep, $2699.

Is 2699 actually steep? How much is an ES330? If the new US Casino is made in the USA with Gibson parts and wood supply, then the only real changes are the headstock and logo (maybe the neck wood as well)
From what I've read about these, they are every bit as well made as their US counterparts.
How much was a US made vintage Casino on release?
Also, what made the originals cheaper other than Logo? Did they use a cheaper wood type or laminate? If so, are the new ones made cheaper as well?

[Larry Mal]

Is 2699 actually steep? How much is an ES330? If the new US Casino is made in the USA with Gibson parts and wood supply, then the only real changes are the headstock and logo (maybe the neck wood as well)

So, maybe I can shed a little light on this.

I've talked before about how the Gibson ES-330 and the typical overseas made Casino aren't the same, and they have different woods. The ES-330 has a 3 ply laminate and the Korean made Casinos have a 5-ply. Like, is one better or worse? Well, in my experience, fuck yeah. Also, you can bet your ass that the Casino's laminate is cheaper to use because of course it is. How else could they price it that way?

I just checked, and the US made Casino uses the same 3-ply laminate that the Gibson ES guitars use and not the 5-ply that the overseas made ones use.

I don't know that Epiphone really has a US factory at this point. Also, I watched a video about the ES-335, and in that video we see an ES-335 being made. The Gibson employee talks about how the press that makes the 3-ply laminate into the ES-335 shape is the same one that has made every other ES-335 since day one. There's only the one machine.

The guy in the video says the press came from Kalamazoo, and, "every ES we've ever made has come from that machine." It's at about 1:20. They have to mean every slimline ES, though... the ES-175 would not have come from that. But anyway.

My point is, those US made Epiphone Casinos are almost certainly made in the same factory (Nashville, now) that the other ES guitars are made in, and with the same wood. They are Gibsons.

And at the moment they are the ES-330s as well, Gibson is not making anything under that name at the moment. But when they were making ES-330s they were asking around $3k for the things, making the USA Casino, well, not really a "bargain" but it was priced a little cheaper than the Gibson branded ES-330s were.

And since they are the same guitar, it would be a good purchase, I guess. I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Hard to say. The last thing they made under the ES-330 name was this long neck model with hum buckers, which is really just a fully hollow ES-335, but whatever. Fuck. Gibson is all over the place.

Looks like a great guitar, though.

[BoringPostcards]

Thanks for looking into the laminate question, Larry.
You are correct, they aren't offering a 330 right now, so maybe they'll keep the Casino in US production?
Gibson are eternally confusing. From their model names to their endless changes of specifications from year to year.
Fender are wacky too, but at least so don't need a spreadsheet to keep track of what's going on, lol.

I am totally cool with paying US costs for a Casino, if they're honestly using the better laminates.

[Larry Mal]

I am totally cool with paying US costs for a Casino, if they're honestly using the better laminates.

Ah, maybe it's just because I get much more excited about Gibson guitars than I do Fenders, but I find it easy to keep track of Gibson. Fender loses me. I have no idea what they are doing and usually I can't figure out why.

I'll say this about Gibson, people really ragged on them during the Henry J years for throwing shit at the wall and seeing what stuck, but I loved that. And then they went into the debt restructuring and brought in some guy from Levi's jeans who said that they were going to homogenize the whole lineup and I thought that sucked. Like, no one wanted the Dusk Tiger, and the Zoot Suit SG was lame, but it was still fun seeing them having fun with the stuff. They probably only made a couple dozen of the things so who cares?

But I am happy to see that their new austerity really isn't lasting, and they continue to throw stuff out there. I hope that continues.