Dried out acoustic guitar

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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MKR
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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by MKR » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:51 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:33 am

I also have these in my guitars.

If you can get the room stable at 50% or so, you don't need those.
a couple questions about these d'adarrio planet waves humidifiers for individual guitars.

since my martin thread from last week I did get a hygrometer. I go between 35 (at night) to 42 %. We have had a real mild winter in Toronto thus far so we have been lucky, but I'm sure it will get worse into february

I am thinking I am going to install a humidifier into my furnace, but probably won't do this for a while (largely due to the pandemic ).
In the meantime I think i'll pickup 2 of these for my 2 acoustics.

Can you overhumidify if you leave it in a guitar in a case?

If I leave it on a guitar on a stand, is there ever a fear that water can run/drip out into the guitar?

And lastly here's a general question about guitars drying out: Is drying out something that takes a while to happen? Can it happen quickly within a week or would it take a couple months to start seeing problems?

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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:03 am

MKR wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:51 am
Larry Mal wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:33 am

I also have these in my guitars.

If you can get the room stable at 50% or so, you don't need those.
a couple questions about these d'adarrio planet waves humidifiers for individual guitars.

since my martin thread from last week I did get a hygrometer. I go between 35 (at night) to 42 %. We have had a real mild winter in Toronto thus far so we have been lucky, but I'm sure it will get worse into february

I am thinking I am going to install a humidifier into my furnace, but probably won't do this for a while (largely due to the pandemic ).
In the meantime I think i'll pickup 2 of these for my 2 acoustics.

Can you overhumidify if you leave it in a guitar in a case?

If I leave it on a guitar on a stand, is there ever a fear that water can run/drip out into the guitar?

And lastly here's a general question about guitars drying out: Is drying out something that takes a while to happen? Can it happen quickly within a week or would it take a couple months to start seeing problems?
I would say the risks of over-humidifying the guitar with those Planet Waves devices is small, the moisture in there only lasts about a week or so (there are different thicknesses of sponge).

And you could damage your guitar by letting water drip out, but I think you'll find like I did that it's not something you'll really worry about in practice. You'll soak the sponge, and then wring all the water out. I would say that it's pretty easy to tell with the sponges that you are at a point where the water won't be dripping out, I haven't ever really considered it much.

I would say ideally though that these should be used in the guitar case with the guitar laying flat.

I really don't think that it will do a whole lot if the guitar isn't in the case, either. There's just not enough humidity to the sponges if the guitar is out on a stand, although the humidity could quickest go to the wood inside the guitar first.

I moved into a new house with forced air from an apartment with radiator heat and loose windows. At that place, in the dead of winter, even when running humidifiers, I couldn't get the humidity above 30% in the apartment. That's where I would use those in case humidifiers.

Here, I seem to be able to get the humidity where I want it easily, I'm running a couple of room humidifiers and I barely even need those. So I guess my advice would be to get the hygrometer, see what your situation is, and rely on room humidifiers first and consider the in-case humidifiers supplemental to that if needed.
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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by MKR » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:07 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:03 am
Here, I seem to be able to get the humidity where I want it easily, I'm running a couple of room humidifiers and I barely even need those. So I guess my advice would be to get the hygrometer, see what your situation is, and rely on room humidifiers first and consider the in-case humidifiers supplemental to that if needed.
cool thanks. yeah I already got a hygrometer and I go between 35-42%. so it seems not too bad.

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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by jakeisjake » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:20 am

(lack of) humidity is tough here in Vermont, too. It's not just the heating of your house; we use both baseboard hot water and a wood stove (in another room, of course)...the colder it is outside, the less humidity is in the air (well...so say the experts on TGP...and they're pretty knowledgeable...or opinionated...one or the other :D ).

I run a humidifier in our music room (and one in our bed room, for my throat). I can only get the humidity to 38%-45% in the winter. We have a doorless entry to the room (60'' wide); I suppose if we closed it off, it would increase the level. I leave my electrics out, but keep the acoustics in the case. I have those in case humidifiers around somewhere...I should go find them.
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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by seenoevil II » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:25 am

Just to clarify. Once a bridge separates from the soundboard, no amount of humidity will reattach it. If you can get a piece of paper more than an 1/8" underneath the bridge, you should really consider taking it to a tech to have it evaluated and/or re-glued.
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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by Jaguar018 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:38 am

seenoevil II wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:25 am
Just to clarify. Once a bridge separates from the soundboard, no amount of humidity will reattach it. If you can get a piece of paper more than an 1/8" underneath the bridge, you should really consider taking it to a tech to have it evaluated and/or re-glued.
I think they got to it before anything bad happened.

My guitars are now all properly humidified. The humidifier says 60% and the hygrometer says 50%.

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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by raymodart » Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:54 pm

Musicians who play acoustic and classical guitars know that these instruments require careful care to preserve their sound.

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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by jakeisjake » Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:51 am

Instead of a new thread, I figured I'd just revisit this one.

We got a new humidifier and I have been able to keep our instrument between 40% and 50% humidity consistently (when it was very cold, I ran the new one and the old one at the same time).

Is it safe to keep acoustic instruments out?
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:11 am

jakeisjake wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:51 am


Is it safe to keep acoustic instruments out?
I do. 50% humidity in the room is same as 50% humidity in the case or anywhere else.
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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by jakeisjake » Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:07 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:11 am
jakeisjake wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:51 am


Is it safe to keep acoustic instruments out?
I do. 50% humidity in the room is same as 50% humidity in the case or anywhere else.
right? It's just so built into me that I shouldn't...

:)
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by øøøøøøø » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:56 pm

Late to this thread, but I think 50% is too high.

I shoot for 40%.

If it naturally gets higher (as it frequently did in east coast summers), that's fine. But I'd never artificially make it 50% on purpose.

Guitars can certainly get too damp, but the main reason is just for living space air quality--to get to 50% in a whole room, the area nearest the humidifier is going to be considerably more damp. It can promote mold growth... not to mention that running a humidifier all the time requires a lot of maintenance to avoid things like bacteria growth.

The best solution is an in-case humidifier (I like the D'Addario/Planet Waves humidipak solution)

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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:05 pm

I'm sure 40% is fine too, and honestly if my environment dips a little below that during winter I don't freak out about it. It's not like it's going to blow up or anything. It'll be OK for a few days. Or like Brad says, that's when I might put them all in cases with in-case humidifiers, sometimes when it's zero degrees out there you are running the heat so much your room humidifiers aren't going to keep up.

What I know about humidity and guitars I learned from Taylor and I figure they would certainly know:

"The ideal humidity range for an acoustic guitar is 45-55 percent, but 40-60 percent is generally acceptable. "
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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:28 am

It all depends.

If humidity is too high, it can actually cause the top to swell into a slight arch, which can (in extreme cases) cause symptoms similar to neck angle problems.

I've never had cracking, seam or glue integrity issues as long as I make a solid good-faith effort to stay as close as possible to 40% most of the time.

In my old Brooklyn place, when the radiators were on in the winter it was a struggle just to stay within shouting distance of 40%, even with a humidifier running pretty much constantly. But as long as I wasn't too much lower than 35-38% I didn't really worry too much; it's not rocket science (the guitar isn't going to instantly implode if it momentarily dips down to 39%).

55% seems very high to me, but if that's Taylor's recommendation it's no shock that walking into the acoustic room at most Guitar Center locations feels like walking into a tropical rain forest. That's almost absurd to me, but it's certainly less likely to be damaging than a guitar that's way, way too dry.

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Re: Dried out acoustic guitar

Post by Embenny » Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:41 pm

Yeah, there are a bunch of practical concerns that dictate which end of "acceptable" you target.

For me here in Canada, I have to target between 35-40% in the winter; higher than that means a bunch of building- and health-related issues, since the extra moisture will condense on the inside of windows, pool, and turn into potential window frame damage and mold growth.

If you live in Vietnam or the swampy parts of Florida, I doubt that even aggressive air conditioning could bring you down much below 60% during hurricane or monsoon season.

I feel lucky that I live on the low end of guitar RH. Guitars tend to sound crisper and more lively when dry, and a little muffled when damp. A famous saying in the classical guitar world is that a guitar sounds its best when on the verge of implosion; that goes for things like top thickness, number and size of braces, and humidity as well. That point right before the top splits in two from dryness is where the wood is lightest (water = weight) and is therefore able to move most freely.

But none of us can micromanage things to live on that edge, so we need to keep RH in a range where a few days of drier or damper weather won't make the top split in half on the dry side or the frets to squeeze out of the fretboard/bridge to lift on the damp side.
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