The lipstick strat saga...

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Paco
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The lipstick strat saga...

Post by Paco » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:36 am

So, absolutely inspired by the magnificent playing of Tom Verlaine on Warm and Cool, his terribly underrated 1992 instrumental album, I decided to begin my strat with lipstick pickups journey ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPDRfnv ... sTanevitch

I'm really lusting after those clean but growly, spanky tones; Verlaine's playing is just superb on this record. After some research I found that (after Television) he apparently only uses this weird franken-strat guitars with jazzmaster necks and lipstick pickups. I can clearly hear the hi-fi clean tone of a jazzmaster over the whole record, but there are some tracks where the guitar is low key growling and jangling (I suspect this is the strat). I think that tone could really spice up a little my playing style, I'm a little bit too used to my JM's sound.

I don't care a lot for strats or most of their sounds (I only have one strat: a BRG 2000's Squier strat, better than most american and mexican strats I've owned) but this approach to the particular quirks and pickup configuration of the guitar seems interesting in the lipstick pickup context.

Any experience with this combo of guitar-pickups? There is a pretty accesible set of Seymour Duncans SLS-1 for sale locally, maybe that's where i'll start... :ph34r:

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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:28 am

Warm & Cool has some of my favorite recorded guitar sounds ever. I hear a variety of guitars though.

My only advice on lipstick pickups is go full sized. Strat-sized ones are not the same. That’s a bit of a pain in the ass with most body routing and of course also needs a custom pickguard.

In your shoes I would reach out to WD Music. They did my lipstick JM pickguard and also sell Kent Armstrong lipsticks which can be pickguard mounted, so maybe they can sell you the whole deal. With the right swimming pool routed body you’re good to go.

I went with Nep-Tone pickups for my JM project and asked him to send me pickguard mounting brackets but these were too wide to work on a JM guard. I can take measurements if I can find them, BUT I don’t think there is any universal standard for hole spacing from one company to the next.

Or just wait until a body or complete guitar pops up used that you can adapt to your needs. Lipstick pickups in a Strat was also an SRV thing, so some people have put guitars together for that reason. I think Chandler was also doing full sized lipstick Strats in the early 90’s.

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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by del » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:41 pm

A few years ago there was a Squier model - the Vintage Modified Surf Stratocaster - that came equipped with "Duncan Designed" lipsticks and had cool (imho) colors: surf green, sonic blue, and candy apple red. One of those might be a great starting point for your story!
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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by ohm-men » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:13 pm

I "think" Tom Verlaine used low output Danelectro Lipstick pu's in his Strat.
They are defenitly the large size pick ups.

Most RI Lipstick's have a far higher output then the original Danelectro's.
Although my personal expirience is somewhat limeted with these.
I did a Jag for someone with an old low output lipstick in the neck and a P-90 in the bridge.
In the middle position it tended to sound quiet unbalanced due to the higher output P-90.
I really liked the sound of the Lipstick... It has something special going imho.

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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by tammyw » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:43 am

I don't know much about Danelectros, but I have a set of SLS-1 for Strat, and while they have a nice jangly sound, they're super low output. Like almost touching the strings, with stainless strings, it's still the lowest output guitar I have. But I like the bright, jangly sound anyway. I also have a set of Novak's lipsticks for Jaguar, and they were a bit punchier than expected, didn't thrill me as much as hoped.
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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by s_mcsleazy » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:23 pm

i'm always a big fan of lipsticks but my big issue is compared to some of my guitars, i usually need a boost pedal to bring them up to line level.

SAYING THAT. i do have a NOS 90's danelectro lipstick pickup still in box that's never been fitted. i got it for £10. might hold onto it.
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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by Embenny » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:49 pm

Lipsticks sound great and are incredibly low-inductance. The cool thing about a strat type setup is that you can easily wire them in series for all sorts of cool tones. 2-pickup Danelectros are in series in the middle position by default. It raises the inductance and gives a more conventional output and tone, so you aren't limited to "just" the mega-bright ultra-low-output thing.
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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:22 pm

I’d be curious to know what if any switching shenanigans Tom Verlaine’s Strat has.

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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by Paco » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:07 am

ohm-men wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:13 pm
I "think" Tom Verlaine used low output Danelectro Lipstick pu's in his Strat.
They are defenitly the large size pick ups.

Most RI Lipstick's have a far higher output then the original Danelectro's.
Although my personal expirience is somewhat limeted with these.
I did a Jag for someone with an old low output lipstick in the neck and a P-90 in the bridge.
In the middle position it tended to sound quiet unbalanced due to the higher output P-90.
I really liked the sound of the Lipstick... It has something special going imho.
I finally got my experiment going, and there are some pretty interesting things I found out about lipstick pickups overall, and how modern versions compare to the originals.

Before I got the chance to install the Duncan Lipsticks on the strat, I was lucky enough to find a silvertone U-1 from 1960 in excellent condition (stupid low price too!), and with an infamous original big lipstick on what would be the equivalent to the middle position (there are U-1's with the pickup placed closer to the neck). This is something super important, the placement of the pickup. I realize now that I was very lucky to find this particular version.

When I got the guitar I was in the middle of recording an LP with my band, and I decided I'd drop the old silvertone on the studio in case we needed that tone. To my surprise, and everyone else's, this guitar was one of our main tone weapons! The short scale is almost ridiculous, but the lipstick compensates any short comings in the guitar's playability. Clarity, bite, a certain growl rich with harmonics. All of the things I was looking for after falling in love with Verlaine's tone on Warm & Cool :-* Paired with my '66 Princeton and an old ZVEX SHO, this baby is a secret weapon.

I discovered that this very particular placement of the lipstick pickup really gave the guitar its own voice, without the shrillness of a bridge position lipstick or the boominess of the neck. And this position is something you can sort of replicate with a strat, at least in the placement of the pickup!

So now I had a pretty good reference tone for the strat, as I needed a guitar for live situations that could replicate the Silvertone's tone that's all over our new record...

Here are some pics of the Silvertone U-1. My god, what a guitar.

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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by Jonesie » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:43 am

Paco wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:07 am
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I played one of those at a Guitar Center about 12 years ago, and it was one of the best guitars I've ever heard. Just incredible.

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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by Maggieo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:53 pm

You might try Fatdog at Subway Guitars for some NOS Danelectro lipsticks.

He built my Dano/Silvertone maple top.
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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by del » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:13 am

The (mistakenly unsung, imho) middle position on most any guitar can be a real treat. And when it featuresa less-focused pickup, such as a lipstick or goldfoil or firebird, it provides varied and powerful responses - it's a great choice for the broken down sounds that make me happiest when I'm playing or listening.

Put the right one in the middle position on a strat and... bingo!
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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by mediocreplayer » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:01 am

del wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:13 am
The (mistakenly unsung, imho) middle position on most any guitar can be a real treat. And when it featuresa less-focused pickup, such as a lipstick or goldfoil or firebird, it provides varied and powerful responses - it's a great choice for the broken down sounds that make me happiest when I'm playing or listening.

Put the right one in the middle position on a strat and... bingo!
Completely agree. It is my favorite position on any guitar I have ever played. I was surprised when I started hanging out on guitar forums to see that a lot of players virtually never select it.

OP: a comment on the video you posted I think quotes TV about what he used. It seems to be a bigger variety than a Strat with lipsticks. I was not aware of this record and listening to it now, so thank you!

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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by Paco » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:32 pm

After getting to know the exact tone I was looking for with the '60 Silvertone U1 (a.k.a la abuela) I sure had a nice point of reference for the lipstick strat. :whistle:

I bought the Seymour Duncan SLS set and had it installed on my 2000 Squier frankenstrat. Exact same stock parts on the pickguard, except for a new 5-position switch. I decided on the SD's after hearing some really good clips (it was a husband and wife podcast, totally lost the link tho :fp: ) comparing different lipsticks and realizing they all sound pretty much the same. There's a particular brightness on the vintage one, but SD's are not far from nailing it, they're just a bit weaker, as most other reissues.

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The results surprised me, I absolutely love this guitar :-* Yes, the Tom Verlaine tones. Yes, the shrillness of the U1. Even the magic coming from the middle pickup. It's all there. This strat was already good, better than most modern american ones I had before, but now it has some serious character! I'm also surprised with the volume output, it's pretty much the same as my vintage Jazzmasters. You just need to be very thoughtful and careful about each pickup's height, these babies are really responsive to that. Not as underwhelming and weak as expected, definitely.

One thing I now know about lipsticks: they're impossible to replicate with another pickup. I've been looking for a similar sound from all my single coil guitars and even some p90's, but nothing really gave me that tone. Not pedals, not amps, not other pickups. Sure, there are nice Teles that can somehow nail Les Paul tones or heavy metal-single coil strats. But nothing sounds like a lipstick!!

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This is the final height on the pickups. Super comfortable, no issues at all, just a bit higher that the older ones. I was expecting to raise them a lot more, but that's enough for a healthy volume with regular 250k pots!

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Re: The lipstick strat saga...

Post by Maggieo » Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:53 pm

Paco wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:32 pm

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OMG! :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

That is a perfect photo. Your cat looks like my beloved cat, Scooter (RIP). And the Strat is amazing.
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