OffsetGuitars.com

welshywelsh wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:48 am

The guitar went back to Martin UK rather than Nazareth. Not sure what is on offer over here but I was informed they were the ones that checked it over and re-set it up.

I see. I don't know anything about the Martin facilities in the UK, didn't even know there were any, but the proper thing to do would have been to get you a new guitar or remove the neck and put it on at a proper angle. But I guess I'm skeptical to think that the UK facility would have had the wherewithal or capabilities to do either of those.

If, as you say, it ever went there. And I was always suspicious of the whole truss rod adjustment thing.

What an all around failure this whole experience has been for you, no one has done right by this guitar. I hope you can wash your hands of it once and for all.

Ok so an update on this, I've reached out to the shop and asked to return it for a refund. Action is now 0.75mm higher despite being in the case, humidified etc.....in 8 days.

Had this back which made my blood boil:

"Thank you for your email.

Now that your guitar has been returned from Martin & Co, with the below comments concerning dampness, accompanied by the PDF attached, the information provided from Martin & Co is interesting and helpful isn’t it [it's the care instructions that I've clearly been following]

We don’t feel we can add anything further to this, as the shop also inspected the guitar upon recent receipt back from Martin, it seemed to play great, and performed as it should.

Thank you, Mark"

I replied stating how I've been keeping it, the fact that if it was damp, this wouldn't happen in a week etc. Nothing back. It's also worth mentioning that the shop inspecting it holds no weight to me, as the first guitar I received had 3 different signatures on it for quality control and was damaged.

I'm seeing the guitar tech again tonight and he's going to reach out to the shop directly once he's re-inspected.

I'll be taking this as far as I need to.

That sucks, sorry.

No point getting your tech involved unless the shop know/respect them. The shop will be unlikely to agree with your expert.

If it’s under warranty just tell them you’re going to return the guitar & if they won’t refund it, you’ll ask your credit card company to do so instead.

Shitty attitude. Hope this gets sorted out

sal paradise wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:30 am

If it’s under warranty just tell them you’re going to return the guitar & if they won’t refund it, you’ll ask your credit card company to do so instead.

Keen to understand this a bit more if possible. Not ever had to deal with this previously

That really sucks.

You are still under warranty. Is your technician an authorized Martin repair shop?

If not, see if you can find one.

It's time to reach out to Martin in Pennsylvania.

welshywelsh wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:55 am

sal paradise wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:30 am

If it’s under warranty just tell them you’re going to return the guitar & if they won’t refund it, you’ll ask your credit card company to do so instead.

Keen to understand this a bit more if possible. Not ever had to deal with this previously

If purchased on a credit card they will (to some extent) go into bat for you against unscrupulous/fraudulent traders.

I would suggest contacting Trading Standards Wales for advice at this point:
Trading Standards Wales

welshywelsh wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:55 am

sal paradise wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:30 am

If it’s under warranty just tell them you’re going to return the guitar & if they won’t refund it, you’ll ask your credit card company to do so instead.

Keen to understand this a bit more if possible. Not ever had to deal with this previously

Presume you bought the guitar more than 6 months ago? You have statutory protection up that time. As you reported the fault within 6 months of buying the guitar, hopefully you still have good legal cover: Citizens Advice Bureau - faulty goods

Saying you’ll go to your credit card company is just a threat. As the cc have the power to reverse a charge, the retailer might accept your return rather than wait to be forced to. But if you’re covered by consumer rights law, better to follow that trail & see what you can do.

This really sucks

If you’re warranty-covered, I believe I’d be reaching out to Martin directly, advising that the dealer has been unhelpful, and that you’d like to initiate a warranty claim

Include pictures of your case dehumidifier setup and hygrometer readings

Based on your description of the timetable of the factory service, I concur with your skepticism that this guitar ever went back to Martin UK

I wonder if there’s a way to reach out to them and verify they’d seen the guitar?

If their response is “we haven’t,” you know what you’re dealing with

øøøøøøø wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:49 am

I wonder if there’s a way to reach out to them and verify they’d seen the guitar?

If their response is “we haven’t,” you know what you’re dealing with

That is an excellent idea.

I've actually reached out today to Martin.

As for the shop, I sent pics showing the humidity at 51% and where I can see neck lifting and have been ignored.

You can see the fretboard edge and a small gap to the body here:



I've also made the point that the fact Martin have said within a week of not being at exactly 50% humidity it becomes unplayable is frankly ridiculous, regardless of whether it's humidity controlled or not. How do people cope if they go on holiday or tour these guitars?!

I've raised a Section 75 with my credit card company too.

There are parts of the United States (e.g. south Florida) where the average daily relative humidity is around 75%.

I'm sure there are plenty of people in Miami, FL who play Martin guitars.

Something just doesn't seem right here

Criminy! If I were this shop I'd just take the thing back already. The potential damage to their reputation and potential costs of in shipping and repairs are much bigger than simply taking it back and trying to sell it again. They're gonna be taking a bath either way. It's just one bath is smaller and doesn't hurt their potential future sales.

As for humidity, IDK, I'll be the dissenting voice here and say that 75% is just a bit too high for some of these instruments. These things were conceived and initially built for the temperate US climate which does see moisture levels that high, but only as part of an annual cycle that will also dip way down into the near single digit relative humidity as well. Your environment just happens to be stuck at one extreme. There are probably guitars that rolled off the line that same day that could've handled it fine, but it's wood, so there was no telling.

This whole thing sucks. IDK, maybe in an idle moment, google if there are any interesting Welsh Luthiers making something that entices you. Something built in and for that environment.

It's not Wales, it's the neck is on at too shallow an angle. That's all there is to it. Don't let anyone run you around with truss rod this hygrometer that, either Martin resets the neck at a proper angle, you get a new guitar or a refund.

I tend to be much more worried about underhumidified guitars than over-humidified ones

Spending months at 25% will cause braces to come loose, potentially seams opening up and it will be much more vulnerable to cracking (it might sound fantastic until it fails, though!)

Spending months at 75% most likely won’t have dire consequences in my experience, though it may certainly start to sound dull and thuddy. In extreme cases, wood can swell and bulge, causing finish damage and (yes) neck angle issues.

But I very rarely have seen things get to that extreme (whereas too-dry guitars are probably more common than properly-kept ones, at least here in the states)

I haven’t been to a Guitar Center in awhile but I feel like most locations always had their acoustic rooms at roughly “tropical rain forest” levels of humidity