Thank you
What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
- Mechanical Birds
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 3656
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:24 pm
- zeero9
- PAT PEND
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:41 am
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
According to Fender, which is the only definition that matters, body and headstock. That’s all, the rest are just opinions.
- Embenny
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
People are just having fun.
Besides, it's not actually that simple. Case in point: a Telecaster body with a Strat headstock is still a Telecaster, but a Jazzmaster body with a Telecaster headstock is...also a Telecaster.
So, is a Telecaster a dominant gene, like brown eyes? Doesn't matter whether it's 3/4 Jazzmaster or 1/4 strat, if there's any amount of Tele DNA in there, it's just a tele?
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- Squareball
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:49 pm
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Exactly! People ARE just having fun. Plus, I don't think we can entirely trust Fender on this one.( )
If it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
Regarding the Offset telecaster, Im sure if Fender could have secured the patent for "Telemaster" then it would have been called exactly that.
May the Fuzz be with you
- 601210
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 1021
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:55 am
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
I didn't know this was a thing. It's kind of funny to see a modern-day example of Fender just trying to "creatively "flog old stock, like the Swinger or Maverick.
They didn't even change the decals
- Embenny
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
That kind of supports my hypothesis that telecasters are a dominant trait. Even if you have a Jazzmaster neck that says "Jazzmaster" on it, it's still a Telecaster!
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- Maggieo
- Expat
- Posts: 13447
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:36 am
- Location: Nebraska, USA
- Contact:
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
No! It's an ESQUIRE, because it was the first, and, like the Highlander, there can be only one.
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
- 601210
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 1021
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:55 am
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
- Embenny
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Now this is getting to the core philosophical issues at play.601210 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:57 amThe funny thing is I've seen Bruce Springsteen referenced several times as an Esquire player, even though his Esquire had a neck pickup added very early on...
Is a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?
Do even esquires suffer the dominant-Tele fate of being overwritten by any feature of tele-ness, like having a neck pickup added?
These are the hard-hitting questions we are tackling here.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- Maggieo
- Expat
- Posts: 13447
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:36 am
- Location: Nebraska, USA
- Contact:
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Like my old one:601210 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:57 amThe funny thing is I've seen Bruce Springsteen referenced several times as an Esquire player, even though his Esquire had a neck pickup added very early on...
Modified Fender Esquire, October, 2009 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Fender Esquire With Lollar Pickups, November 17, 2015 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
- 601210
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 1021
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:55 am
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
I'm pretty sure that for current Fender, Duo Sonic = Duo Sonic I and Mustang = Offset body.mbene085 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:20 amIs a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?
I mean, this: https://shop.fender.com/en-US/electric- ... 42506.html
is really waaaaay more of a Duo Sonic II than a Mustang...
- sirspens
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 786
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:26 pm
- Location: Austin, Texas
- Contact:
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Okay... Let's shut it all down and go home. This is craziness. Is there an exploding head emoticon?Squareball wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 amIf it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
(What really gets me is that to have the Telecaster heal on that neck, they had to special make those necks, so they weren't just laying around left over with a Jazzmaster decal!)
- JSutter
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 7:30 am
- Location: Maine
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
We can guess all we want, but Fender will do whatever. It's just marketing.
- windmill
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 4483
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:31 am
- Location: South Eastern Australia
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
mbene085 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:20 am
Now this is getting to the core philosophical issues at play.
Is a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?
Do even esquires suffer the dominant-Tele fate of being overwritten by any feature of tele-ness, like having a neck pickup added?
These are the hard-hitting questions we are tackling here.
Wow, I think i'm in over my head here.
I'll just have to wait here till you guys have sorted it out.
- Squareball
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:49 pm
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
sirspens wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:14 pmOkay... Let's shut it all down and go home. This is craziness. Is there an exploding head emoticon?Squareball wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 amIf it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
(What really gets me is that to have the Telecaster heal on that neck, they had to special make those necks, so they weren't just laying around left over with a Jazzmaster decal!)
I actually feel a bit sorry for this guitar. It must have an identity complex. I've often seen them listed as jazzmasters in the jazzmaster section in classifieds. Like the owners didn't even know what they had bought.
May the Fuzz be with you