Ribbon mics, what are the favorites that are under $2k?

[JSett]

You’re gonna love those 4038s

Ditto. When I still recorded they were up there with my favourites. I loved the old RCA 74B Jr I had as well, and the modern sE Elecronics VR1 was great on cabs as it had an SPL limit of 135dB!!

[DeathJag]

These are so cheap you can't afford not to buy them. No experience myself:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=625908

Oh yeah, a nice user posted this link and the discount code and I sprang for a pair! I'm super curious how it will sound on guitar and room!

Hey has anyone compared the Beyerdynamic m160d to the pricier and figure 8 patterned m130? I will be getting some m160s because I love the hypercardiod thing. Just gotta save a little more.

[Dok]

These are so cheap you can't afford not to buy them. No experience myself:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=625908

Oh yeah, a nice user posted this link and the discount code and I sprang for a pair! I'm super curious how it will sound on guitar and room!

Hey has anyone compared the Beyerdynamic m160d to the pricier and figure 8 patterned m130? I will be getting some m160s because I love the hypercardiod thing. Just gotta save a little more.

Oh, it's in this same thread! Damn! I missed the 15% off.

[DeathJag]

Oh, it's in this same thread! Damn! I missed the 15% off.

These Monoprice mics claim to be ribbons, but also need 48v phantom power?!!!! How does that work?!

[Dok]

Oh, it's in this same thread! Damn! I missed the 15% off.

These Monoprice mics claim to be ribbons, but also need 48v phantom power?!!!! How does that work?!

https://www.aearibbonmics.com/what-is-a ... icrophone/

Active microphones are the same as passive microphones, save one major difference — they have internal electronics and a custom transformer that boost the mic’s output level and maintain a consistent impedance over the entire frequency spectrum. To operate this circuitry, active ribbons require standard 48-volt phantom power.

The mics’ internal electronics provide key benefits that allow greater flexibility over their passive counterparts. This includes 12dB more gain, a better signal-to-noise ratio and a consistent impedance regardless of the external mic preamp.

In certain instances, long cable runs from a passive ribbon mic to a preamp can cause noise issues as well as impedance problems. In scoring stages, preamps are often in the recording space nearest the microphones and musicians, minimizing this interference. That isn’t always an option, but active ribbon mics are equipped for any circumstance.

For many years, all ribbon mics have come with a warning not to use phantom power. That has now changed.

[DeathJag]

Wild! I appreciate the info. I won't have time to really experiment and record with these for a while but I'll report back.

[NBarnes21]

4038's are great, you'll love them. For overheads I've found they work best in a higher ceiling good sounding room, as the figure 8 pattern does add more ambience than say a pair of cardioid SDC's. I have a pair of m160's, love them on guitar cabs, they also work great as overheads for a more direct sound than the 4038's due to the cardioid pattern. I also like 4038's as a blumlein drum room pair, positioned over to the ride side of the kit so they're looking in a total straight line at kick and snare. If you want a cheaper option of 4038's I've had great results with the Thomann T Bone RB500's, this video sold me on them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhyy0IcIzas

m160 great as a hi hat mic too if you have a particularly bright set of hats

[JSett]

4038's are great, you'll love them. For overheads I've found they work best in a higher ceiling good sounding room, as the figure 8 pattern does add more ambience than say a pair of cardioid SDC's. I have a pair of m160's, love them on guitar cabs, they also work great as overheads for a more direct sound than the 4038's due to the cardioid pattern. I also like 4038's as a blumlein drum room pair, positioned over to the ride side of the kit so they're looking in a total straight line at kick and snare. If you want a cheaper option of 4038's I've had great results with the Thomann T Bone RB500's, this video sold me on them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhyy0IcIzas

m160 great as a hi hat mic too if you have a particularly bright set of hats

On my previous band's last record I had great results with my pair of 4038s in a Glyn Johns setup, plus close mics. I got a wonderful natural and detailed image of the kit with enough close-mic reinforcement to make them thump when needed.

[DeathJag]

On my previous band's last record I had great results with my pair of 4038s in a Glyn Johns setup, plus close mics. I got a wonderful natural and detailed image of the kit with enough close-mic reinforcement to make them thump when needed.

That's exactly what I'm going to do! Plus a pair of fancy hypercardiod condensers at a distance for room. My Coles set is supposed to arrive in a few weeks!

Sadly I don't have high ceilings in my basement so a few feet overhead will have to do.

[JSett]

On my previous band's last record I had great results with my pair of 4038s in a Glyn Johns setup, plus close mics. I got a wonderful natural and detailed image of the kit with enough close-mic reinforcement to make them thump when needed.

That's exactly what I'm going to do! Plus a pair of fancy hypercardiod condensers at a distance for room. My Coles set is supposed to arrive in a few weeks!

Sadly I don't have high ceilings in my basement so a few feet overhead will have to do.

Nice! Yeah, I think I only managed about 4½ feet above. Sounded great

[øøøøøøø]

The counterintuitive thing about the fig. 8 pattern is that the overall null area is significantly larger than a cardioid.

So Fig. 8 has greater room rejection overall--it's just that the rejection is shaped in the form of four nulls. They're at 90 and 270 degrees off-axis, duplicated in two planes (both lateral and vertical dimensions). This is as opposed to a cardioid's single null at 180 degrees.

2-dimensional graphs don't represent this very well, but picture a Fig-8 pattern like two spheres stuck together: there's a lot of empty space all around the single point where the two spheres touch.

A cardioid pattern might be described more like a "tomato shape," with the tomato being significantly larger and broader than either of the spheres described above. Picture a typical store-bought tomato and imagine the dented-in part where the stem used to be. That represents the single null that faces the rear (on-axis would be the bottom, domed part of the tomato).

It's easy to understand, when imagined that way, that the cardioid rejects less room sound than a fig. 8.

If a fig. 8 seems like it has more ambience or room sound in a specific use case, it likely has to do with the reflectivity of the surface that's facing the rear lobe of the pattern.

If you've got (e.g.) a loud horn player facing glass control room window, reflections from that window will obviously bounce right back into the rear lobe of the pattern. But if you rotate the mic and player 90 degrees, it'll reject the surface reflections at least as well (mathematically better, really) than a cardioid with the rear null facing the window.

If used over a drum kit, a hard untreated ceiling might become more of a factor.

[øøøøøøø]

because pictures are clearer:

3D representation of a Fig. 8 pattern:



3D representation of a cardioid pattern:



Consider also that these nulls will not behave uniformly at all frequencies. The cardioid's null will start to be collapse at lower frequencies.

[NBarnes21]

because pictures are clearer:

3D representation of a Fig. 8 pattern:



3D representation of a cardioid pattern:



Consider also that these nulls will not behave uniformly at all frequencies. The cardioid's null will start to be collapse at lower frequencies.

Super interesting! Hadn’t pictured it that way. Going off what you said, I could imagine the added ambience I experience from using figure 8 overheads being due to the fact that the rear lobe is *only* picking up room reflections rather than any direct sound coming off the drums (similar to when you place a baffle in between a room mic and the drum kit to give the perception of a bigger room). But looking at the diagram it makes sense that figure 8 would pick up less lateral room sound and reflections than cardioid which is interesting. I’ve also seen folks use really small microphone shields on the back side of coles when used as overheads, that could be a cool solution for a more direct sound with less lateral reflections/room sound as well as avoiding any slap coming off the ceiling

[NBarnes21]

Whoops somehow quoted my post when I meant to just edit it

[øøøøøøø]

The physics of mic patterns are super fascinating!

For instance, you’d have to be careful trying to baffle the rear lobe of a fig 8… if you baffle too closely and too thoroughly, you’ll actually end up converting the pattern to omni.

Much more effective to either orient the existing nulls carefully, or else make the surface behind the rear lobe soft to reduce the amount of reflections bouncing back.

This is because patterns all arise from phase cancellation. The two lobes of a fig 8 pattern are opposite in polarity, and the phase cancellation that results is what creates the null in the pattern. If you block sound from entering the rear, you’ll collapse the nulls and end up with an omni.

Cardioid is an exact mathematical summation of fig 8 and omni.

Adding the two together 1:1 creates the rear null because the back lobe of the fig 8 phase-cancels the omni at that point, while the omni fills in the sides.

Changing the proportions from 1:1 creates various subcardioids and supercardioids, which is why that tiny rear lobe appears on the hypercards/supercards. It’s a greater proportion of fig 8 “taking over.”

Most cardioid mics do these mathematics acoustically. The SM57 has those vents behind the grille (on the side) to let a controlled amount of sound to the rear of the diaphragm to create the null.

Ever seen a mic start feeding back and someone tries to cover it with their hand and it makes it way worse? Or a singer/MC who handholds and cups 58 way up high on the body and has feedback issues?

That’s because when they blocked sound to one side of the diaphragm completely, they collapsed the null and made the mic into an omni!