Twelve-String Mustang / XII

[raxling coxcomb, a]

The site search only turned up two examples of threads about this attempted mod, so apologies if there are more.

How feasible is it, though, to build it this way (assuming a neck with the correct scale):

- Use a traditional Mustang Tailpiece/trem, but bolted so it is no longer a term (or just the Ben Gibbard trem)

- A Jaguar bridge with threaded saddles

It's not that different from some twelve-string in the 60s. I'm just looking for it to stay in tune and be playable.

What do you think?

[MattK]

Would almost definitely work as you've described. The only issue I can think of is string pull - the mount points for the tailpiece in the plate are prone to "tearing out" so you would want the lock-down to be very secure, screwed up tight with washers above and below the plate. Also finding a 24" scale 12 string neck might be a challenge.

[Nudger]

Tried it with a Duosonic..
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=124308&p=1757119&hi ... UOTE,-Post

[Nudger]

- Use a traditional Mustang Tailpiece/trem, but bolted so it is no longer a term (or just the Ben Gibbard trem)


- A Jaguar bridge with threaded saddles

If its gonna be 12 stings permanently, maybe bolt one of these to your trem plate..https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295873386947 ... media=COPY

Ive used jag bridges on a couple o XII builds and found them fine, moved them on quickly so maybe missed the screws working lose with play.
Bit o locktite should solve that tho..

[raxling coxcomb, a]

If its gonna be 12 stings permanently, maybe bolt one of these to your trem plate..

Currently, it doesn't actually have a term plate. It's a Fender Player Mustang with a hardtail bridge.

I like your Duo-Sonic dry run as well. Sorry it didn't work out as planned.

And thanks MattK for the advice. I'm going to use that Gibbard tailpiece which should be secure enough.

Fingers crossed it all works out

[MattK]

Since it's non-trem, something like this could let you use the string-through holes for the normal strings and top-load the octave/unison ones. Might need to slightly re-route the exits on the top of the body, but that would be hidden by the plate even if you reverted it. Seems like a nondestructive mod.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/123960212771

[s_mcsleazy]

i was recently chatting with the dudes who helped me build my telemaster xii why there isn't more short scale xii's. my big issue with my xii is even me (the dude who uses 12-52's in standard on a full scale) thinks the tensions is a little high (i did go down to 10's)

[Nudger]

i was recently chatting with the dudes who helped me build my telemaster xii why there isn't more short scale xii's. my big issue with my xii is even me (the dude who uses 12-52's in standard on a full scale) thinks the tensions is a little high (i did go down to 10's)

I tune my XIIs down half a step, much easier on fingers and neck.

[raxling coxcomb, a]

Back to making some progress on this. I've cleaned up where the nut had been, and begun cutting the new nut. So it's time to chime back in here.

Since it's non-trem, something like this could let you use the string-through holes for the normal strings and top-load the octave/unison ones. Might need to slightly re-route the exits on the top of the body, but that would be hidden by the plate even if you reverted it. Seems like a nondestructive mod.

I have a Gotoh 12 string bridge, and it nearly works as a drop-in replacement, but there several issues.

• The string holes on the Gotoh bridge are staggered at a diagonal. This makes the holes in the bridge plate start to cover up part of the holes in the body

• If you try to line up the string holes with the bridge plate, the three holes behind the saddles don't align with the holes in the body. They would have to be filled and re-drilled

• If you line up the three holes in the bridge plate with the ones in the body, the string holes aren't aligned. They would have to be filled and re-drilled.

• It can also make the bridge overlap the existing pickguard. You could cut it, or get a new custom one made

• It can also make the bridge not correctly aligned with the neck, sitting too far to the bass side of the strings.

This would mean, basically, having to fill all the holes and drilling new ones. Not really thrilled with that idea, especially since it would be by hand drill and drill bit guide.

However, replacing it with a hardtail version of the trem seems a reasonable option here. If done well, it could also allow someone to install an actual trem if they want to in the future. That person could even be me.

Pros:
- Don't see many firemist gold Mustangs with a tremolo
- Bridge weight on the body could help balance against the neck
- only have to drill two holes, versus filling and re-drilling nine holes
- Looks cool
- vintage market probably won't matter in thirty years anyway

Cons:
- have to drill two holes for bridge posts
- changes a Fender Player body into a Modified Fender Player body
- might not look cool
- might not do jack for balance issues
- might regret in thirty years if trying to sell

As always, feedback is welcomed

[Nudger]

Back to making some progress on this. I've cleaned up where the nut had been, and begun cutting the new nut. So it's time to chime back in here.

Since it's non-trem, something like this could let you use the string-through holes for the normal strings and top-load the octave/unison ones. Might need to slightly re-route the exits on the top of the body, but that would be hidden by the plate even if you reverted it. Seems like a nondestructive mod.

I have a Gotoh 12 string bridge, and it nearly works as a drop-in replacement, but there several issues.

• The string holes on the Gotoh bridge are staggered at a diagonal. This makes the holes in the bridge plate start to cover up part of the holes in the body

Heres a pic of a gotoh XII plate that has been modified for use on a hardtail strat/tele/mustang.
As long as it is centered "Correctly with the Neck" the 6 stings using the body ferrules will be ever so slightly off where entering the underside of the saddles.

This is so minimal that it will not affect play.
Of course with your body this is only workable with the correct 24" scale neck
If you dont have the skills to modify yours, PM me and ill send you this one.

Other options


With these you could even use a 25.5" neck. Ideally, dowel string holes on body and drill for thimbles to required scale.

On these two I hid Gib style 12 string retainer like so..

[raxling coxcomb, a]

Back to making some progress on this. I've cleaned up where the nut had been, and begun cutting the new nut. So it's time to chime back in here.

Since it's non-trem, something like this could let you use the string-through holes for the normal strings and top-load the octave/unison ones. Might need to slightly re-route the exits on the top of the body, but that would be hidden by the plate even if you reverted it. Seems like a nondestructive mod.

I have a Gotoh 12 string bridge, and it nearly works as a drop-in replacement, but there several issues.

• The string holes on the Gotoh bridge are staggered at a diagonal. This makes the holes in the bridge plate start to cover up part of the holes in the body

Heres a pic of a gotoh XII plate that has been modified for use on a hardtail strat/tele/mustang.
As long as it is centered "Correctly with the Neck" the 6 stings using the body ferrules will be ever so slightly off where entering the underside of the saddles.

This is so minimal that it will not affect play.
Of course with your body this is only workable with the correct 24" scale neck
If you dont have the skills to modify yours, PM me and ill send you this one.

Other options

Drilling out the plate of the Gotoh is an option I hadn't considered that I'm now thinking about. The version with the locked mustang tremolo does look a little bit cooler, though.

[raxling coxcomb, a]

Heres a pic of a gotoh XII plate that has been modified for use on a hardtail strat/tele/mustang.
As long as it is centered "Correctly with the Neck" the 6 stings using the body ferrules will be ever so slightly off where entering the underside of the saddles.

This is so minimal that it will not affect play.
Of course with your body this is only workable with the correct 24" scale neck
If you dont have the skills to modify yours, PM me and ill send you this one.

For those following along at home now or in the future, a few updates:

• The saddles for the Gotoh 12 string hardtail bridge are slightly wider than the saddles on a Mustang Player bridge. This means that all the saddles would gradually be pushed in a diagonal direction as you add them. Replacing just one saddle on the original Mustang bridge showed this to be the case. So close.

• If you're going to use a Gotoh bridge on the Mustang, and are using the existing string-through holes in the body, you need to know:
  • 1: The three holes that attach the factory bridge won't be in the right place for the Gotoh bridge. You will need to make these approx a half-inch/12.7mm back from the existing holes (moving away from the neck)
  • 2: You will need to modify your base plate the way Nudger did above

This is a less destructive mod than adding a traditional Mustang tremolo. However...I still may install a traditional trem.

[raxling coxcomb, a]

This is so minimal that it will not affect play.
Of course with your body this is only workable with the correct 24" scale neck
If you dont have the skills to modify yours, PM me and ill send you this one.

I missed responding to this before about the scale: it's a 24.5" scale neck.

The issue I see now with the Gotoh is moving it back far enough so the intonation is correct means leaving a larger gap between the pick guard and the start of the bridge.

I have a few ideas on how to cover it (custom pickguard, or add a new weird decorative element). But you have done a few of these 12 strings, is there a longer bridge plate-type solution you know of?

[Nudger]

This is so minimal that it will not affect play.
Of course with your body this is only workable with the correct 24" scale neck
If you dont have the skills to modify yours, PM me and ill send you this one.

I missed responding to this before about the scale: it's a 24.5" scale neck.

The issue I see now with the Gotoh is moving it back far enough so the intonation is correct means leaving a larger gap between the pick guard and the start of the bridge.

Not converted a mustang to XII before so took a look at a mustang player on line.
Tell me if im missing something..
Im strugling to see why the gotoh cant be seated against the guard? Maybee a little material will need removing from pickguard either side of the bridge (IF the gotoh plate is wider width than the mustangs) but if you open up your gotoh plate for the bodys string through holes, it looks to me that the gotoh saddles would be seated in near same position as the originals?

I would fit the gotoh up against the guard, send something through the string holes to mark the back of the bridge so you can open plate holes up.
Any chance of a picture/mock up?

[Nudger]

This is so minimal that it will not affect play.
Of course with your body this is only workable with the correct 24" scale neck
If you dont have the skills to modify yours, PM me and ill send you this one.

I missed responding to this before about the scale: it's a 24.5" scale neck.

The issue I see now with the Gotoh is moving it back far enough so the intonation is correct means leaving a larger gap between the pick guard and the start of the bridge.

Not converted a mustang to XII before so took a look at a mustang player on line.
Tell me if im missing something..
Im strugling to see why the gotoh cant be seated against the guard? Maybee a little material will need removing from pickguard either side of the bridge (IF the gotoh plate is wider width than the mustangs) but if you open up your gotoh plate for the bodys string through holes, it looks to me that the gotoh saddles would be seated in near same position as the originals?

I would fit the gotoh up against the guard, send something through the string holes to mark the back of the bridge so you can open plate holes up.
Any chance of a picture/mock up?

Ahh pennys dropped!! Your neck is 24.5 Not 24.
Yes this will throw up problems if using the Gotoh.
I wouldnt use the Gotoh on this personally.
Im a big fan of one piece compton bridges, but if you are ok with TOM or jazzmaster...