AVRI vs. CIJ/MIJ only on PAY PER VIEW!!!!

[pullover]

The Short:
First off, let me say this: both guitars are great and whichever you choose will be the right decision. This isn’t meant to steer you towards either direction, just to help inform you so you can make up your own mind. To say one guitar is better than the other would be wrong, since they are both different versions of the same model (it's like saying Oranges are better than Tangerines). The AVRI is from the American Vintage Series which attempted to replicate all the physical and tonal aspects of the originals, and they came very close. The CIJ/MIJ Reissues are just remakes of the model. They are made with metric parts, not to historically accurate specifications, but they are professional quality remakes. I might also add that neither is hand made, like the original vintage guitars.

The Long:
Reasons one might choose AVRI over CIJ/MIJ
1. The finish. AVRI’s have a Nitrocellulose finish on the body and more importantly the neck (which affects playability). Although more fragile, the nitro finish will age and check like a vintage guitar.
Note: The base coat on the metallic finishes may be polyurethane.
2. The neck. Though both claim the same C shape, AVRI’s necks are said to feel “beefier” than their Japanese counterpart.
3. The Electronics. The Japanese versions have much lower quality pots, wiring, and most CIJ’s have the shielding inside is sprayed in, rather than using shielding plates. Most importantly, the AVRI stock pickups are closer to vintage specifications; this difference is greater with the Jazzmaster. You can see a comparison of the two pups here: http://www.webrocker.de/jaguar/v2/index ... ow=jm_pups
4. The Hardware: AVRI’s are purported to have sturdier springs in the floating tremolo, and the piece that holds the trem bar in place is of a sturdier tighter construction. Also, the bridge seems a bit more stable. As far as Jaguars are concerned they have the Mute assembly where as the CIJ does not.
5. The case: it comes with a Fender hardshell case.
6. The cost: although it costs more, it retains its value rather well. Also, since Fender no longer allows Jaguar/Jazzmaster shipping to U.S. distributors, Japanese values have gone up, closing the gap quite a bit.

Reasons one might choose CIJ/MIJ over AVRI
1. The finish. CIJ/MIJ has a lot more options available for finish. Although they have Polyurethane Gloss paint on them, this may be preferred for its greater reliability, lower maintenance requirements, and feel. Some have found the thick coating on the back of the neck to be undesirable, and use 0000 steel wool to take some of the finish off.
Note: some early MIJ had basswood bodies; this is no longer the case. All CIJ’s are alder.
2. The neck. CIJ necks seem to be a bit smaller, though this varies a bit. Also some have blocks and binding, and matching headstocks.
3. The electronics: you may prefer the stock pups, they typically sound more like a Stratocaster, and pots, jacks, and wiring are cheaply replaced. Also the switches in Japanese are Double Pole Double Throw, which opens up more mod possibilities.
4. The cost: If you bought a used CIJ, replaced some of the hardware, the pickups, and the electronics yourself (paying a tech to do this would raise the cost), you would have a guitar that (arguably) looks, sounds, and plays as good as its American counter part for less money, and you could do it as you could afford it. You may prefer to experiment and put humbuckers in or some handwound boutique pups. You may decide that you want to route out the guitar add a 3rd and a 4th pickup. Who care’s right, “it’s a CIJ.” I'm not saying this in a negative way, but the lower cost makes it easier to say, "yes, lets mod it."

***I am not an expert in anything, nor do I claim to be, if there are in fallacies or this is inadequate please comment, and we’ll edit it. Please keep the comments pertaining to the topic, and based on fact. No grammar policing, or snide comments. If you are a mod, and you see something wrong, please feel free to change it.  ***

[glimmertwin]

....are the poly bases only on metallic colors on the AVRIs?  I never really was clear on what all that meant - I have heard several different explanations of nitro use in the AVRI series.

[pullover]

I got that from this site http://www.fenderjaguar.net/reissue.htm, and I have read it in other places that the metallics were urethane base coat. I had no confirmation on whether all of them had urethane base coats.

[Felix]

That was a great link regarding the AV/CIJ/MIJ conversation. I had heard in past debates that the AV was a mixture of finishes, but it was cool to read more about it. A good site for sure. It should probably be pinned so it can be referenced in the future.

[Vinkie]

I own a CIJ JM and a vintage Jag. I am quite familiar with both AVRI and CIJ models as the shop I work in stocks them.

To the valid points pullover already pointed out I'd like to add that EU pricing is altogether different than USA pricing. The AVRI's are quite expensive over here (list price €2000+, street price more like €1700-1800) while the standard CIJ's are readlily available and have seen lower street prices lately: you can get two new CIJ's for one new AVRI at this moment. Using Ishibashi would be even cheaper on the CIJ's (although I am not comfortable getting a guitar without seeing and playing it before). Also the market for used AVRI's is not so large as there aren't that many around.

I went for a CIJ because I liked the idea of upgrading it as time and money allows. I will gradually add a gold guard and replacement pickups/pots/wiring. I must say it's a very decent guitar, nice woods/finish/details and it sets up very well with heavier strings. I was gonna replace the bridge and trem too but after some setting up (and a touch of superglue here and there) they work fine so I'll stick with 'em.

[Felix]

I own a CIJ JM and a vintage Jag. I am quite familiar with both AVRI and CIJ models as the shop I work in stocks them.

To the valid points pullover already pointed out I'd like to add that EU pricing is altogether different than USA pricing. The AVRI's are quite expensive over here (list price €2000+, street price more like €1700-1800) while the standard CIJ's are readlily available and have seen lower street prices lately: you can get two new CIJ's for one new AVRI at this moment. Using Ishibashi would be even cheaper on the CIJ's (although I am not comfortable getting a guitar without seeing and playing it before). Also the market for used AVRI's is not so large as there aren't that many around.

I went for a CIJ because I liked the idea of upgrading it as time and money allows. I will gradually add a gold guard and replacement pickups/pots/wiring. I must say it's a very decent guitar, nice woods/finish/details and it sets up very well with heavier strings. I was gonna replace the bridge and trem too but after some setting up (and a touch of superglue here and there) they work fine so I'll stick with 'em.

That totally sucks man. I feel for people that pay those prices. I think AU is paying a lot as well.
Actually, to get two new CIJs for the price of one AV is a great deal. I'd capitalize for sure. Or just buy one and trick the heck out of it.

[Vinkie]

......That totally sucks man. I feel for people that pay those prices. I think AU is paying a lot as well.
Actually, to get two new CIJs for the price of one AV is a great deal. I'd capitalize for sure. Or just buy one and trick the heck out of it.

My thoughts exactly! I Bought one near new for a heavily discounted price and yes, I have and will trick the heck out of it

[Pumpkin]

AU prices vary a ridiculous amount it seems.
Heres a general idea thoough, all in AU$ and are only for Jazzmasters and Jaguars.

New CIJ - $1,150  Average loss on resale $300 +/-
2nd Hand CIJ  - $850+

New AV -$3,000  Average loss on resale $750 -
2nd Hand AV - $2,250+

So the CIJ's actually dont loose as much resale value as AV,which to be honest i had never even noticed until i typed it here.


Mustangs are around $1,200 new and you can find them for as little as $600 2nd hand,but average around $900+.

These prices reflect an average I've seen during all of 2006 and are pretty accurate.


Now...Vintage prices

All original 66 Mustang and case cost me AU$2,300,around US$1,700.
Which is pathectic realy,i could have got a 64 for that in california.

1964 Jazzmaster around  AU$6,000.
1965 Jazzmaster "              "$5,500.
1973"                  "                $3,500.
1976 Mustang------------------$2,000.

These prices are taken from one store that deals in vintage,all are over priced and I'll never buy a vintage guitar anywhere but the US.

Some effects,the Au price and what i got mine for from the US


MXR Phase 90 AU$220 if bought here in AU,  I paid AU $95 from the US.
MXR BlueBox  AU$190."                                            " AU$95"                  "
EH Small Clone AU$205"                                            "AU$95"                  "
EH BigMuff      AU$200"                                              "AU$95"                "
Boss RC2        AU$? some expensive price.                AU$240"              "
EH Litlle BM    SAME expensive shit                            AU$97'                  "


By no means are these written in stone but it is damn close to what to expect.Also my SansAmp classic cost me about AU$700 here in AU...think that was the first expensive and last thing i ever bought in AU actually.
I dont even buy strings here..

DR 10-52 in AU - AU$17.00
DR 10-52 in US - AU$8.00 and i f i order 10 packs shippings about 10 ozi$ so thats AU$9.00 a pack,saving AU$8.every time!

Australian Retail is a Scam!

You'd probably all laugh if i told you what else i buy from the states!

[aen]

sex toys?

[FireAarro]

AU prices vary a ridiculous amount it seems.
Heres a general idea thoough, all in AU$ and are only for Jazzmasters and Jaguars.

New CIJ - $1,150  Average loss on resale $300 +/-
2nd Hand CIJ  - $850+

New AV -$3,000  Average loss on resale $750 -
2nd Hand AV - $2,250+

So the CIJ's actually dont loose as much resale value as AV,which to be honest i had never even noticed until i typed it here.

I don't know where you live, but in Melbourne I see New CIJ Jazzmasters/Jaguars going for about $1400. On eBay they can go for anything, usually $900 or more though, as far as Jazzmasters and Jaguars are concerned (CIJ strats don't sell well, the CIJ teles with the binding sell for a LOT of money).

AVRI list price is $3000 AU, I don't know how much they actually sell for. I got my Jag second hand for $1550 or something, a super rare AVRI BMM matching head Jag went for less (quite regret not picking that up!). Jazzmasters might be able to fetch a little more. Either way, you do lose more resale value dollars wise with AVRI than CIJ.

[Pumpkin]

Yea i know most retailers list a Jag/Jaz for $1,400 but they don't seriously expect it.I know a place in Syd that does them for $1,178 delivered to your door - (TNT Express) Eastern  states only.Thats what mine cost.

Oh,i live in Melbourne also,although I'm out of town atm for a while.
You just need to shop around,but my days of buying nationally are over,it's just not worth it!

[Pumpkin]

sex toys?

Not yet,but they are cheaper out of the US

[jagermeister]

I don't really give a f*ck where the guitar comes from, as long as it plays well. And I find an equal number of good playing MIJs over AVRIs, so I'll take the MIJ any day.

Right on with the MIJ/CIJ having sweatshop wiring though... Not that it makes too much of a difference, but the pots don't have as solid a feel to them.

Necks from Japanese fenders are just all over the place... I've played MIJ Jags with VERY beefy necks, smaller necks, and inbetween things.

[JazzBlaster]

I would just change the wiring anyways so cij/mij work best for me. Plus the shop I used to work at sells them to me cheap. Last time I bought a CIJ Jag and an MIJ jazzmaster and got the pair for $900. (used)

[aen]

WOAH!  good one!

I own a CIJ jazzmaster, and while the AVRIS are really nice, I don't think they're $1400 nice.  I got mine for under $700, and switched pickups totalling around $100-$125.  I havent had any issues with the pots or wiring....

Plus Fender USA puts out clunkers sometimes, whereas I think the Japanese ones are more consistent.