Re: May have found a machinist for a XII bridge

jrkirkish · Post by **jrkirkish** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:38 am

I brought up the question of how we would get a XII bridge made up over at Harmony Central. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/for ... id=1431368 There's the link to the thread.

I haven't contacted him yet, because I have hopes that our new member, Val66c, will be able to machine us some bridges. He'll need to use and original to make the copy from, so someone's going to have to volunteer their bridge to be borrowed for a month or so.

Should I give this guy over at HC a PM? I think it would be worth it to have multiple sources of XII bridges, what with Val66c attempting to make one and all...

And as an aside, exactly how many people are looking for a XII bridge? I know me and zhivago are looking for one... is there anybody else out there looking for one? Post in this thread if you do; I'd like to get an accurate count of exactly how many we would have made up. Economy of scale, or something like that.

Val66c · Post by **Val66c** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:05 am

I made a bit of progress today and I think I should be able to have one done within a week. I went and saw a good friend of mine today who just happens to be a tool maker/machinist and he thinks we should easily have it under control. I'll post some pics as soon as I'm finished.
I would love to get hold of a real one for reference but I think I should be able to get very close just by studying the pictures.

jrkirkish · Post by **jrkirkish** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:15 am

Val66c wrote: I made a bit of progress today and I think I should be able to have one done within a week. I went and saw a good friend of mine today who just happens to be a tool maker/machinist and he thinks we should easily have it under control. I'll post some pics as soon as I'm finished.
I would love to get hold of a real one for reference but I think I should be able to get very close just by studying the pictures.

Once you get the plates out of the way, the hardest part is going to be the saddles. You gotta find springs, screws, and make the saddles from scratch (and drill a hole lengthwise in them and then thread that hole. I mean I could make the bridge plate if you gave me a bandsaw, and a drill press. The saddles are going to be the hardest part.

Val66c - did you take your measurements from the tracing of a XII bridge in one of these threads? I'd hate for you to go through all this work and at the end have it be a different scale than an original.

Post by **zhivago** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:48 am

it'll be best if you could get a real bridge to make an accurate rerpro....I'm interested in paying for one, but only if it is an exact reproduction.

mjet · Post by **mjet** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:57 am

I *might* have an actual vintage saddle. Perhaps that could be useful for the machinist. The screw hole could be bored to about any size we wanted, so we could perhaps source an appropriate item beforehand and have that all synced up. I'll look for the saddle - talk about a needle in a haystack!!

DarrelT · Post by **DarrelT** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:05 am

There's also the patent drawings to use for a reference.

jrkirkish · Post by **jrkirkish** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:25 am

Well, here's what the guy over at HC says:

I can model anything you put in my hands, and a cnc can make anything I can model. Making those saddles is no big deal if I'm understanding them correctly. A cylinder with raised edges and a tapped hole through the middle, correct? Got a better pic of them? Finding the screws and springs won't be a problem either. Hardest part will be determining the pitch of the threads and that'll take all of about 5 minutes. Using a CNC, making 3-4 would cost no more or no less than making 1. You pay for material and machine time. Tooling for something like this isn't going to cost anything because it's a small, simple part. Total cost per bridge, I really can't say. Machine time for a CNC is pricey, but well worth it in the end because you get an exact copy of the part everytime and even the BEST machinst will have slight variations from part to part. Machinst time, if you don't want to go with the 3D model, will cost even more. If you do wanna go with CNC, which I think you'd be a fool not to considering you want multiple, I'll do the model, which will be 100% accurate to the bridge you want me to clone, for $100, which is about half what it should actually cost for the model.. From that model, you can have any shop with a 5 axis CNC generate as many exact duplicates as you guys need.. McMasterCarr.com sells screws and springs by the ton, and I could have my purchasing department here at work figure out exactly what screws and springs you'll need... So all you'd need the shop to provide is the actual saddles and plates.

Now, here's what I'm thinking: Everybody that wants a XII bridge throws in ten bucks or so (depending on how many people want one) and we find someone that would be gracious enough to let us borrow a XII bridge. This guy will make a model in AutoCad so that anyone with a copy of the model can send it off to eMachinist or some other place that will do CNC fabrication. we'll make the model 'open source' or copyright free, so that anyone who wants a XII bridge can have one made for them.

Now the only obsticle is finding someone to borrow a XII bridge from, and getting the money together. For $10 or so, we will have created the means by which anybody that wants a XII bridge can get one. Just the model off to a place that does rapid prototyping....

So what do you guys think about this? Hell, I'd be able to put up the $100 if someone would be cool enough to let me borrow a XII bridge.

Eh, it's something to think about....

Post by **zhivago** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:11 am

would that actualy be legal?

isn't the design patented?

Mr M · Post by **Mr M** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:19 am

i really want one...... but Aug said he and someone and knows could do it and i don't have to worry. i really trust him on his word, but i'm thinking if someone could make a bunch at once then i'm down for buying one, just to save Aug the trouble

jrkirkish · Post by **jrkirkish** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:38 am

zhivago wrote: would that actualy be legal?

isn't the design patented?

I doubt Fender would mind. And wouldn't the patent have expired by now?

So... do you want one?

Aug · Post by **Aug** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:43 am

Mr M wrote: i really want one...... but Aug said he and someone and knows could do it and i don't have to worry. i really trust him on his word, but i'm thinking if someone could make a bunch at once then i'm down for buying one, just to save Aug the trouble

werd. I *could* have my guy make one, but if this dude is gonna make a bunch of 'em, let's go with him.

Post by **zhivago** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:43 am

I'd like to see one working on a guitar first, but yes, in principal I'd like one....depending on the price too, and the quality of the chrome etc.

on the patent front.....

I just wouldn't want the messageboard to get into legal problems over giving the blueprints for the bridge to the public, that's all.

I think it would be prudent to check about the patent situation first, just in case....afterall, it is someone else's design...that's all I'm saying...if it's for one or two people's personal use, then it's cool..but if the bridges are gonna be on sale, it might be a different ball game, and it would be good to make sure we (as a messageboard) won't get into trouble.

the bridge was still in production under 10 years ago with the Venus XII too....so it's possible it's still in effect

jrkirkish · Post by **jrkirkish** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:26 am

Well, I asked the guy about the legality of copying the bridge. If anyone knows a patent lawyer, you might ask them about this situation...

And as for pricing, the guy estimates that after we lay down $100 for him to make the model, it'll cost around $200 USD to complete a bridge (and that includes having it chromed by a third party)
Here's what he says:

Yes, $100 to model a part is cheap, but keep in mind, all that $100 gets you is a file for each piece of the model (1 for the saddles, 1 for the main plate, etc..). You still gotta buy the metal, screws, springs, etc.. pay a shop to make it, get it chromed, blah blah blah.. I would give a conservative estimate of $200 a pop after the initial $100 to make the model.

Not cheap, but didn't I read somebody say that they've seen XII bridges go for $250-300 on eBay?

Now all we need is a volunteer - somebody to let us borrow their bridge. Any takers?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:29 am

i love this thread! it's funny!

DarrelT · Post by **DarrelT** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:34 am

XII Bridge Patent