Condenser Microphone(s) help required...

[Ursoluno]

Alright.  This is somewhat of a tall order, but I need some help in selecting a condenser microphone...  Or two.

I play exclusively acoustic guitar nowadays.  Specifically, instrumental acoustic guitar.  99% of the time, you can find me playing a Gibson Hummingbird with a Fred Kelly derlin thumbpick and two National brand fingerpicks.

For the holidays, I received a MOTU Ultralite Firewire Interface.  So it appears that I've got one half of my recording setup ready to go.  Now I just need a good microphone.

So what do you recommend?  I'm not looking for something that will excell with a strummy, more "jingle jangle" sound.  I want a lot of defnition and I want something that sounds warm beyond belief.

As far as price range goes, I'm willing to go anywhere up to $1,000.  Early favorites are the Rode NTK and the Neumann TLM103.

The Rode NTK strikes me as a great bang-for-your-buck microphone.  Every review I've read seems to echo that sentiment.

The Neumann is... Well...  It's a Neumann.  My only concern is that it might be a little TOO nice for my setup.  Remember, I'm only recording via my MOTU firewire interface right into a Macbook Pro.  I don't see myself switching to 2" tape anytime soon.  Is the Neumann overkill?

Another issue: What about stereo recording?  Lots of people seem to do just fine using one large diaphragm condenser mic.  I know others opt for a two microphone approach, though.  What are the pros and cons to each setup?

The thing is that I have NO idea what microphones really excel with acoustic guitars specifically.  I know lots of condenser mics are known for their beautiful response to vocals.  Unfortunately, I could give fuck all about vocals.  Like I said, I exclusively play instrumental acoustic music.  That being said, I might like to use this mic on OTHER acoustic instruments later on - cellos, harmoniums, shruti boxes, singing bowls, etc.

I've checked the following article for basic information...

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug01/a ... tr0801.asp

...but I need more specific recommendations when it comes to microphone selection.

So let's hear it, engineers!  What would you recommend for my digital recording setup?  I welcome (and greatly appreciate) any and all suggestions you might have.

[ugly casanova]

i cannot recommend any specific mics but i just can tell you that i've read many times that it'll sound best if you use one pair of selected (!) small diaphragm mics because large diaphragm mics "color" the sound too much. you should place both mics 45°, facing you to get rid of phase invertation.
i think this will make a really nice stereo sound.

[amanda]

Well here's what I use:
I have a Rode NT-1a (large diaphragm condenser) on the body of the guitar and a Rode NT-5 (small diaphragm condenser) on the fret board usually faced at the 12th fret.
I love using the large and condensers together to get the punch of a guitar along with the body.

Now, at the studio we have a Shure KSM44 that I am IN LOVE with, it is however around $800 dollars.  It's a beautiful mic though.

For your setup I would probably go with the Rode, I've been very happy with their mics.  But I would also get a small diaphragm to pair with it.  The Rode NT5 or NT4's would be great.

Hope that helps  :)

[Meshuggahnans]

First of all, the easiest question I could answer is that you definitely should go the stereo route.  When you record acoustic guitar you want to simulate a "XY Stereo pair"  which is where the heads of the microphones overlap each other to form a 90 degree angle --- its a little anti-intuitive, but you actually don't want to aim at the sound hole, but rather above it (to the neck)  and below it (down towards the bridge.)  You don't have to do the XY pair, where you're actually aiming is the most important -- you can separate the mics in distance and have them angled at the two different hot spots I just mentioned, aimmed outside-in... if i'm not making any sense let me know and I can draw a picture.

That being said, condenser pencil mics are usually used for that kind of recording.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--RODNT5 
I have heard these mics, and they would recommend them -- they fit in your price range, too.  The thing is, I sorta find pencil mics have a bit of a limited utility -- they do make awesome overheads, and cymbals in general, though.

One thing I'd encourage you to fit in your budget are decent mic pres.  They are often overlooked, but me and my recording friends have come to the consensus that the mic pres are more important than the mic.  Just think about how differently a guitar amp shapes your sonic identity vs the guitar itself -- your mic level is being amplified a lot when you record, so use the best mic pre possible!  Check out this website: http://www.thelisteningsessions.com and you can hear for yourself what I mean, and form your own opinion.  It has great sound clips of A/Bing pres and mics.  Okay, sorry I get long-winded -- long story short -- i'd advice dividing your budget equally on mics and mic pres.

Last thing I will say.. as for condenser mic shopping on a budget - C1 studioprojects mic (http://www.studioprojectsusa.com/c1.htm) has the highest bang per buck ratio of any condenser I've ever used.. I highly recommend it, and I have actually recorded acoustic guitar on it if you want me to post a sample.

Anyways, hope some of that info helped! =oD

[eggwheat]

Hiya,...id be asking this question on gearslutz or even better Klaus heynes mic forum thats were the mic experts hang out.. better than reviews too i just dont trust reviews in mags or internet, these people actually use the things everyday:D  But just to add my two cents..the TLM103 isnt really looked on as that great a mic by many..I certainly dont like it very much. NTK ive never used but I read some hate it, some love it..the sound you said you are after is warm..so id probably steer towards something valve and colourful..my recommendation on that budget would be a Rode K2 it is an excellent valve condenser with variable patterns.

One mic means you have to double track your guitar or add artificial reverb/delay chorus to get a stereo sound..2 mics means you can record in stereo using various mic positioning techniques. All can sound as good as each other..depends what you want to hear on your track.

Why i obviously would agree XY positioning is a good method of recording in stereo I definitely wouldnt say it is the be all and end all...there are many other methods of stereo recording and each can work great at one time or another. It really is best to just experiment and try everything. Mono with a touch of room reverb can sound just as good if thats all the track requires.

[Ursoluno]

Thanks for all the suggestions, people!

Keep 'em coming!

[glimmertwin]

I hear the Red Microphones are really good buys and later on you can add different capsules for different sounds/applications. 

http://www.vintagemicrophone.com/JShop/


...but I have never used one.  Those KSM mics are cool though - we used one for a recording project and found a few uses for it.
That's cool you got that Motu - I just saw that the other day.  Looks like a nice product for the home recording enthusiast.

[northern_dirt]

I hear the Red Microphones are really good buys and later on you can add different capsules for different sounds/applications. 

http://www.vintagemicrophone.com/JShop/


...but I have never used one.  Those KSM mics are cool though - we used one for a recording project and found a few uses for it.
That's cool you got that Motu - I just saw that the other day.  Looks like a nice product for the home recording enthusiast.

Those look cool (another offshoot of BLUE mics?.. like VIOLET?)
The fact that you can change capsules is a really cool feature,
I know Violet just cam out with one like that as well..
and sells about 9 or 10 Vintage modeled Capsules for it..

[glimmertwin]

...oh ya, I meant to mention the Royer ribbon mics can sometimes be found for about that much.  I guess Albini blessed them with holy water or something...

[northern_dirt]

...oh ya, I meant to mention the Royer ribbon mics can sometimes be found for about that much.  I guess Albini blessed them holy water or something...

The 121 Royer is the new in vogue guitar amp mic..

[fuzzjunkie]

to add to some of the very good suggestions: if you want a darker, full bodied sound, you'd want something that has a nice low-mid hump like the Neumann U-47 or one of it's clones...Red makes a capsule that does that...the TLM103 is clean and bright sounding and will "jingle-jangle."

The Joly modded Oktava 319 are also a good choice...as would be a ribbon mic like the Cascade Fathead...you can get a matched pair for well under your budget and they cut off/smooth out the high end very naturally.

a stereo pair of small diaphragm is probably the classic approach, but a mixed set of small and large could work wonders...though the mics can color the tone a bit, it is probably better to find a pair that capture a lot of body and detail and work with mic technique and a full sounding guitar to eliminate the jingle-jangle than finding a darker mic that might end up sounding dull and boring. though the above are darker than the TLM103, they are known for capturing a lot of detail.

[Ursoluno]

Okay.  So I'm thinking...

1.  Pair of Neumann KM 184s (unless I happen upon a pair of KM84s)
2.  Pair of AKG C451Bs
3.  Pair of Oktava AK012s

Thoughts on those specific models, anybody?

[glimmertwin]

I have read in a few different places that the Marshall/MXL 603/604s are very very close in sound to the much more expensive Octava MK012s.  I mean, I read it on the internet(tapeop messageboard, gearslutz, etc) so take it with a grain of salt but it might be worth a small investment to just give them a shot.  My understanding is although the MXLs are made in China, it's not just the same stock Chinese mics that are rebranded like you see with other mic manufacturers.  I believe they are involved in all areas of the mic design.

[northern_dirt]

I have read in a few different places that the Marshall/MXL 603/604s are very very close in sound to the much more expensive Octava MK012s.  I mean, I read it on the internet(tapeop messageboard, gearslutz, etc) so take it with a grain of salt but it might be worth a small investment to just give them a shot.  My understanding is although the MXLs are made in China, it's not just the same stock Chinese mics that are rebranded like you see with other mic manufacturers.  I believe they are involved in all areas of the mic design.

From what I was told (now this was a few years back) all the cheap O brand mics capsules are made in the same factory in china..
So MXL, APEX, etc etc are all really the same deal.. so if you wanna go cheap O mics.. just find the least expensive one

[glimmertwin]

When you say "O brand" are you talking about the Octava's?  I thought there were actually two types of Octavas - the Russian made ones, and the ones that were being made in China by some British company who claims to have the rights to the brand name.  I think the Russian ones are the ones harder to come by and the more valuable of the two although I think they both have been known to suffer from QC.