Squier 40th anniversary Jazzmaster (impressions on p. 8)

[pikmin]

Well all I can say about my CV is I must have lucked out, cuz the frets were polished and no sharp edges at all, necks straight and comfortable. Maybe CME did a good setup on it before shipping to me. Yes I’ve played CVs that had sharp edges and were rough. But I’d say mine has good bones and not cheap crap untreated lumber. I will say despite being listed has having ash veneers, it looks like poplar grain under the white blonde to me, oh well. Still a great guitar for the money. Also, I put it on par with my 2006 American delexe tele in playability. Just had to put a little more time into setting it up properly. Back to the thread at hand.

A lot of my bitterness toward current Squiers stems from my feeling of being taken in by the "grassroots" hype for them in places like this forum and YouTube. There is so much sunk cost self-justification going on. "Just shim the neck! Loctite the bridge screws! Replace the pots and switches! Then replace the neck! And the body! And all the hardware!" The constant insistence that they play as well as MIMs, they hold up to wear as well, they're a better deal. I played my CVJM every day for two & 1/2 years because it's what I had. But I knew from day 1 that I had made a mistake buying it.

I know this is an old thread, but it got bumped recently and I read through.

I find this take that guitars need to be set up perfectly out of the box kinda weird. Maybe it's because I worked for both Guitar Center and, afterwards, a real shop and spent A LOT of time with A LOT of guitars. The only guitar I ever pulled out of the box that was set up well was my personal Peavey Wolfgang Special. Even at that point, I still tweaked the setup for my preferences.

Part of the problem is that prior to my adventures in guitar shops would pull the guitars out of the box and give them a little bit of a tweak before putting them on the wall, but that was before the explosion of the big box stores coast to coast. I actually got scolded for spending time doing that when I was at GC. Most of the time they barely get tuned before being put up on the wall, and I can't imagine that helps sales.

Another part of the problem is the sheer amount of guitars that are now purchased sight unseen via the internet. For the most part they arrive in the retailers warehouse, get tossed on a shelf, and then get picked for shipping without ever leaving the box. You're getting the guitar as it left the factory. And where are these factories? Indonesia, China, Korea, Mexico, California, Tennessee, Michigan, etc., etc., etc. When you have a guitar delivered to your doorstep, how does your climate compare to where the guitar was manufactured? We have to remember that most of our guitars are made out of wood and, well, wood gets weird with climate changes. The guitar may be perfect at the factory but things shift by the time it gets to you.

I've been playing for 29 years at this point. My first guitar was an Ibanez Silver Cadet with a licensed Floyd Rose that was a bear to set up. Then I got a '94 MIM Standard Strat (which I still have) for $285 brand new. 30+ guitars have gone through my collection since, 26 of which I still have. Some of the guitars came to me factory fresh, some as parts that I put together, a couple as kits. All of the factory fresh, brand new guitars, ranging from almost 30 years ago to this very year, have all needed setup work.

I would dare say that any of the Squiers coming out now are actually better than the MIM Standards were when I got mine (back when Squiers being junk would have been an upgrade). I have a CV '60s Strat that I think was one of the last ones coming out of China because it has the round lam fretboard and the deeper contours (deeper than even my Vintera Road Worn '60s!) and I'm 99% sure it's alder from the wood grain that I am able to see but the new pickups and the new headstock decals used on the Indonesian CVs. The frets are smooth and level, the laurel looks and feels pretty nice, and the thing is RESONANT. The finish is a tiny fraction as thick as the finish on my '94 MIM Standard. I also bought myself a used MII '70s CV Strat neck and the quality is the same there, although with the thicker neck profile compared to the MIC CVs and the slab board. I also get bored and find myself at Guitar Center often enough to goof off and try stuff out and at no point did I think there was anything wrong with any of the Squiers on the wall that a simple setup wouldn't fix. Well, there was that one that I think somebody may have tossed into the parking lot from the roof, but that's a different story.

Well, this reply ended up much longer than I thought it would... But I have ADHD and a tendency to include every single detail that pops into my head.

Sorry to be off topic but I also have a 1994 MIM Stratocaster . I have a 40th anniversary badge on the headstock ? Do you have one too ? Just asking cause I never saw another one with that badge …

[GilmourD]

Sorry to be off topic but I also have a 1994 MIM Stratocaster . I have a 40th anniversary badge on the headstock ? Do you have one too ? Just asking cause I never saw another one with that badge …

I don't, actually. Just an MN4 serial number. I actually made the purchase in '95, so for all I know it's an early '95 with a leftover MN4 decal.

[pikmin]

Sorry to be off topic but I also have a 1994 MIM Stratocaster . I have a 40th anniversary badge on the headstock ? Do you have one too ? Just asking cause I never saw another one with that badge …

I don't, actually. Just an MN4 serial number. I actually made the purchase in '95, so for all I know it's an early '95 with a leftover MN4 decal.

Yeah I bought mine new in 95 too but it was a 94 model … A sunburst 2 pieces body .
I wonder if there’s something different on this model ..,

[GilmourD]

Sorry to be off topic but I also have a 1994 MIM Stratocaster . I have a 40th anniversary badge on the headstock ? Do you have one too ? Just asking cause I never saw another one with that badge …

I don't, actually. Just an MN4 serial number. I actually made the purchase in '95, so for all I know it's an early '95 with a leftover MN4 decal.

Yeah I bought mine new in 95 too but it was a 94 model … A sunburst 2 pieces body .
I wonder if there’s something different on this model ..,

Probably not. The 50th anniversary version got a special color but all of them that year got the medallion.

[bessieboporbach]

I know this is an old thread, but it got bumped recently and I read through.

I find this take that guitars need to be set up perfectly out of the box kinda weird. Maybe it's because I worked for both Guitar Center and, afterwards, a real shop and spent A LOT of time with A LOT of guitars. The only guitar I ever pulled out of the box that was set up well was my personal Peavey Wolfgang Special. Even at that point, I still tweaked the setup for my preferences.

Part of the problem is that prior to my adventures in guitar shops would pull the guitars out of the box and give them a little bit of a tweak before putting them on the wall, but that was before the explosion of the big box stores coast to coast. I actually got scolded for spending time doing that when I was at GC. Most of the time they barely get tuned before being put up on the wall, and I can't imagine that helps sales.

Another part of the problem is the sheer amount of guitars that are now purchased sight unseen via the internet. For the most part they arrive in the retailers warehouse, get tossed on a shelf, and then get picked for shipping without ever leaving the box. You're getting the guitar as it left the factory. And where are these factories? Indonesia, China, Korea, Mexico, California, Tennessee, Michigan, etc., etc., etc. When you have a guitar delivered to your doorstep, how does your climate compare to where the guitar was manufactured? We have to remember that most of our guitars are made out of wood and, well, wood gets weird with climate changes. The guitar may be perfect at the factory but things shift by the time it gets to you.

I've been playing for 29 years at this point. My first guitar was an Ibanez Silver Cadet with a licensed Floyd Rose that was a bear to set up. Then I got a '94 MIM Standard Strat (which I still have) for $285 brand new. 30+ guitars have gone through my collection since, 26 of which I still have. Some of the guitars came to me factory fresh, some as parts that I put together, a couple as kits. All of the factory fresh, brand new guitars, ranging from almost 30 years ago to this very year, have all needed setup work.

I would dare say that any of the Squiers coming out now are actually better than the MIM Standards were when I got mine (back when Squiers being junk would have been an upgrade). I have a CV '60s Strat that I think was one of the last ones coming out of China because it has the round lam fretboard and the deeper contours (deeper than even my Vintera Road Worn '60s!) and I'm 99% sure it's alder from the wood grain that I am able to see but the new pickups and the new headstock decals used on the Indonesian CVs. The frets are smooth and level, the laurel looks and feels pretty nice, and the thing is RESONANT. The finish is a tiny fraction as thick as the finish on my '94 MIM Standard. I also bought myself a used MII '70s CV Strat neck and the quality is the same there, although with the thicker neck profile compared to the MIC CVs and the slab board. I also get bored and find myself at Guitar Center often enough to goof off and try stuff out and at no point did I think there was anything wrong with any of the Squiers on the wall that a simple setup wouldn't fix. Well, there was that one that I think somebody may have tossed into the parking lot from the roof, but that's a different story.

Well, this reply ended up much longer than I thought it would... But I have ADHD and a tendency to include every single detail that pops into my head.

Why is it that when someone complains that a guitar (especially a relatively affordable guitar) is a disappointment, the response is always that they must not know how to set it up?

Most reasonable people don't consider a bad or indifferent setup to be a manufacturing flaw. In fact, the idea that anyone does is kind of a red herring. Do you think people are really looking at their 10-year-old favorite guitars that now need truss rod adjustments and bridge/vibrato adjustments and fret work and lube in the tuners and are going, "man, that thing must have always been a piece of shit! What was I thinking?"

Because that's what "people expect guitars to be perfectly set up out of the box" implies. Who are these people?

[GilmourD]

Why is it that when someone complains that a guitar (especially a relatively affordable guitar) is a disappointment, the response is always that they must not know how to set it up?

I don't feel like I said that people don't know how to set up guitars. I said that there's this odd expectation that they will already be set up and they're put off by having to do the setup.

Also, I wasn't specificly talking about affordable guitars, either. Notice I listed Tennessee and Michigan in my list of locales with climates that may be different than yours. I unboxed plenty of Gibsons that were unplayable out of the box.

Most reasonable people don't consider a bad or indifferent setup to be a manufacturing flaw. In fact, the idea that anyone does is kind of a red herring. Do you think people are really looking at their 10-year-old favorite guitars that now need truss rod adjustments and bridge/vibrato adjustments and fret work and lube in the tuners and are going, "man, that thing must have always been a piece of shit! What was I thinking?"

Because that's what "people expect guitars to be perfectly set up out of the box" implies. Who are these people? I don't like my Squier because it's made of junk parts that have been poorly assembled.

I assert that pretty much all of the complaints have revolved around setup issues. Now, I didn't say people don't know how to do setups, but if that's how you're taking it in your particular case...

Now, you say "my Squier" as in this is a singular guitar. You don't talk about multiple guitars, comparisons between models, etc. I don't know your guitar and you may very well have a dud. However, you're painting the entire brand with a broad brush and discounting the experiences of others.

Like I said, I worked in MI retail. That was a good six years of my life and I got to spend a lot of time with a lot of guitars.

What exactly is the issue with your particular CVJM?

[superficial]

It seems to be a curious thing amount guitar shops. If I buy a bike, from pretty much any reputable shop, it will come in good working order. Yes, the shop has to grab it out of the box, attach a few bits and make sure the gears are working OK. It means that people aren't usually disappointed with their new purchase.

Yet we seem to accept guitars with stupid action, dry fretboards, fret buzz, no intonation, even sometimes dirty residue left on the guitar etc. Never mind the warped necks, fret sprout etc. For the cost of 20 mins of a (minimum wage) employee's time, I think shops should aim higher when selling guitars, especially to new players who might not know how / what to adjust.

[Pacafeliz]

+1 amen

[GilmourD]

It seems to be a curious thing amount guitar shops. If I buy a bike, from pretty much any reputable shop, it will come in good working order. Yes, the shop has to grab it out of the box, attach a few bits and make sure the gears are working OK. It means that people aren't usually disappointed with their new purchase.

Yet we seem to accept guitars with stupid action, dry fretboards, fret buzz, no intonation, even sometimes dirty residue left on the guitar etc. Never mind the warped necks, fret sprout etc. For the cost of 20 mins of a (minimum wage) employee's time, I think shops should aim higher when selling guitars, especially to new players who might not know how / what to adjust.

I absolutely, 100% agree. I tried being that employee, however, and got scolded for it. "We're gonna sell the guitar anyway. Let them worry about the setup." I think it's a disservice to the customer, though.

Also, unfortunately, it's not the reality of a good deal of businesses that purport to be guitar shops.

I think my point that got missed, though, is that the guitars themselves are being blamed for the problems rather than the reality that climate changes between shipping and recipient locations often mess with setups and sometimes what is a "functional" setup for an inexpensive guitar isn't an "ideal" setup, beyond the fact that every player has preferences.

That's not discounting the fact that there are indeed guitars that are just duds, but I've seen those at every price point, from Samick Silvertones with rollercoaster fretboards to $4000+ Les Pauls with frets lifting out of the fretboard and dents in the wood that were finished over at the factory.

Oh... And nobody ever go to Guitar Center and not expect the floor guitars to not be abused... I've seen some horror stories, but those are still not the fault of the actual guitars.

[smalahove]

Just received my 40th vintage JM in desert sand, I have to say that I am really impressed with this guitar.
It mirrors my Epi SG LP with stock Gibson pups and electronics: you can see and feel it's not the real thing, but it still is a great playing and sounding guitar.

I haven't closely inspected it yet, but it's far from perfect. A small gap in the neck pocket, some fret sprouting, a screw not inserted properly in the pick guard aso. But the shape, taper and feel of the neck is really, really nice. The neck feels "premium". I was planning on changing the pups, but they have a very distinct jangly and "vintage" quality to them, which really complements my other Fenders. They seem to be a but microphonic or poorly wired perhaps, as they're picking up an electronic pulse from something, none of my other guitars do.

As a Fender CS '64 JM owner, I can assure you that you're not getting a CS guitar for a fraction of the price, far from it. But you are getting an instrument that I will prob be enjoying almost(?) as much as my CS JM and my Marrguars. Just as my newly acquired Epi SG LP '61, it's a great version of what is now prohibitively expensive US made version (and this particular guitar has only been made in a CS version afaik).

Lastly, I have tried a lot of Squiers, esp CV ones, and most of those haven't impressed me tbh. So there's something about the vintage series. That being said, I did try one of the newer bound teles with vintage necks, and can't really recall anything particular impressive there either.

[DavidP51]

I'm seriously (still) contemplating the Vintage Desert Sand version (satin finish maple neck is a big plus!), but none available locally to test play. This was asked above but I can't find the answer to it -- is the neck pocket angled or will this need a shim to play decently?
Thanks!

[distressed]

My Gold version has factory angled pocket (no need to shim), so I suppose that's the case with the others too.

[bessieboporbach]

What exactly is the issue with your particular CVJM?

Sorry, I missed this post. In essence, the main problems were electronics failure (within a few months of purchase), neck stability problems, and some minor problems with the finish, chrome, and fretwork. The cosmetic issues I am perfectly happy to tolerate, but neck stability and switch failures are signs of a cut-rate instrument to me and have nothing to do with setup. Obviously the out-of-the-box setup was crappy but that's to be expected.

I'm willing to concede the possibility that maybe most Classic Vibe Jazzmasters are better than the one I received, and god knows the older Vintage Modified JMs and Jags were very nice guitars (I have played several). But the one they sent me doesn't measure up to even the worst MIM Fender I've encountered.

Squier boosters seem to have convinced themselves that complaints about QC are always off-base or down to ignorance about setup. That's really condescending, in my case it happens to be false, and I don't really understand what skin they have in the game anyway since Squier and Fender (and Jackson, Charvel, etc. etc. etc.) are literally the same multibillion dollar corporation. Squier is not some kind of "underdog" and they don't need our support any more than Fender does. And there are other companies selling guitars in this price range (particularly the price range of the 40th anniversary instruments) that are much more impressive.

[GilmourD]

What exactly is the issue with your particular CVJM?

Sorry, I missed this post. In essence, the main problems were electronics failure (within a few months of purchase), neck stability problems, and some minor problems with the finish, chrome, and fretwork. The cosmetic issues I am perfectly happy to tolerate, but neck stability and switch failures are signs of a cut-rate instrument to me and have nothing to do with setup. Obviously the out-of-the-box setup was crappy but that's to be expected.

I'm willing to concede the possibility that maybe most Classic Vibe Jazzmasters are better than the one I received, and god knows the older Vintage Modified JMs and Jags were very nice guitars (I have played several). But the one they sent me doesn't measure up to even the worst MIM Fender I've encountered.

Squier boosters seem to have convinced themselves that complaints about QC are always off-base or down to ignorance about setup. That's really condescending, in my case it happens to be false, and I don't really understand what skin they have in the game anyway since Squier and Fender (and Jackson, Charvel, etc. etc. etc.) are literally the same multibillion dollar corporation. Squier is not some kind of "underdog" and they don't need our support any more than Fender does. And there are other companies selling guitars in this price range (particularly the price range of the 40th anniversary instruments) that are much more impressive.

Interesting. I say that because I've had the opposite experience. It's actually to the point where I've confidently purchased multiple CVs, in whole or in part, and been happy with the consistency. I've got two whole guitars as they left the factory, four necks, a body, and a loaded body on the way to me today. I've recommended them to others who've been happy with them and have played a whole bunch of them in various stores.

The biggest problem I've seen is the lack of understanding with offset trem setups, especially when strung with 9s, and particularly with the non-lock trems. But even the CVs that have been subject to Guitar Center abuse (desert dry air, not a single adjusted truss rod, knocked right off the wall by small children that shouldn't be anywhere near a guitar let alone a whole store of them, etc.) are really fixable with a setup (minus cosmetic damage).

But that's my experience based on a significant sample size. Every single manufacturer has their duds and full-on turds and your one guitar may have been such.

[bessieboporbach]

The biggest problem I've seen is the lack of understanding with offset trem setups, especially when strung with 9s, and particularly with the non-lock trems. But even the CVs that have been subject to Guitar Center abuse (desert dry air, not a single adjusted truss rod, knocked right off the wall by small children that shouldn't be anywhere near a guitar let alone a whole store of them, etc.) are really fixable with a setup (minus cosmetic damage).

Again, this is all anecdotal, but I have read a lot of complaints about the Classic Vibe (and 40th Anniversary) offsets in addition to mine, and the complaints have never been about trying to get them to work with 8 gauge Slinkies or shit like that.

Maybe it was true 20 years ago that the average offset buyer had no idea how to set one of these up and tried to treat them like a Les Paul or Strat. It's probably still true that Fender themselves (or Cor-Tek) don't really know how to set them up. But there's a whole internet out there, including innumerable tutorials on YouTube. Anybody who goes to the trouble of choosing a Classic Vibe instrument knows what they're getting into.

So when somebody says "hey, my Jazzmaster neck is so green I can bend up a whole tone just by tugging on it at the 7th fret," it's not productive to say "have you tried shimming it?" Right?

On the other hand, guitar players aren't exactly known for their literacy or critical thinking skills, so maybe the condescension is inadvertent.