Help me find the Tube Amp that I need.

[Jarvis]

The thing is, not every EL84 amp is going to be like an AC30...

[k o y l]

Yes That was I was beginning to realize...
Tell me if I'm wrong : most Fender amps have EL84, right ?
...and I don't like the Fender too much on the Pod... they miss the warm and juicy sound of the AC30 to my ears.. 
Does what i say makes sens ?

[JazzBlaster]

Most fenders have 6L6 power tubes.

David

[k o y l]

Ah Ok! I don't know nothing about tube amp I'm afraid ! 
So It's the Marshall amps that have EL84 ?
Oh and what kind of tubes Hiwatts have ?  (like them too in the Pod)

[mezcalhead]

OK, I see where you're coming from .. I much prefer to be twisting knobs rather than scrolling through menus as well.

Valves in the power stage, very roughly speaking as there are lots of exceptions to this list:

Marshall, Matamp - EL34
Vox, Hiwatt - EL84
Fender - 6L6 for larger amps (Vibrolux, Twin), 6V6 for smaller amps (Deluxe, Princeton)

.. but before going further I think we need to know what your budget is. Starfish' suggestion of an old Vox sounds good, maybe a 60s Vox AC10 would be perfect for you .. likewise a Carr Mercury might suit you very well; it is scaleable from 1/2 W up to 8W and can take a number of different valves .. but both those options are very pricey and there's no point us coming up with suggestions that are so far out of your range that they're useless to you.

Also as Jarvis says, there's a lot more to the sound of an amp than the power valves .. the circuit itself is probably the biggest factor and I'll bet there are non-EL84 amps you'd like and EL84 amps you wouldn't like. Relying on the Pod model of an amp and the kind of power valve might not give you the right impression about an amp so ideally you should try one with your rig before you buy .. or at least buy second-hand so you can sell it on without losing very much money if it doesn't work for you.

My inclination is still to recommend you a Korg RI Vox AC15TBX .. the speaker is on a plug (unlike the CCs, apparently) so you can easily use an attenuator with them, my impression is that the build quality is a little better than the CCs (at least the early CCs), they're about the right wattage and they also have a master volume which might be helpful, and they can be found relatively easily and not too expensively on UK ebay (they were made in the UK) .. ah, here's one. I don't think they ever came in head form though.

But let's hear a rough guess at your budget and go from there.

[k o y l]

I have no time to make a long answer now (will come back tonight) but I wanted to say thanks for the eBay link, I've searched infos for Korg AC15 but couldn't find them.


With the money I have now and If I sell the Pod and an amp that I have but don't like at all, my budget would be:
1000 Euros / 683 £ / 1350 $
(no money left fo pedals though... but I guess I can wait)
In case I order the amp in the US, a good 25% of the amp price+shipping costs must be added (Taxes !!  ), so even if the $ is weak, it may be more interesting to buy in europe.

I found several amps that are in my budget but I don't how they sound like for the most part so tonight I'll make a list and you may tell me what fits and what not..
Just quickly: How about a Laney VC15: Class AB amp / EL84... seems to be close to the AC30 specs...

A new Vox amp here that might fit the bill --> http://www.voxamps.co.uk/heritagecollec ... 15h1tv.asp

[k o y l]

At least I have some time to post the amp list !!

First, I have to say that I selected these amps on 3 criterias: EL84 + In the budget or a litlle over but seems great...
I don't know any of this amp for real so I selected them just because they seem to fit what I need, if someone experienced one of them and think, it will not fit me, please tell me .
For each of them, I listed the cheaper price I found in Europe & the main specs & some comments.

FENDER AMPS BLUES JUNIOR (Price=609 Euros):
15 Watts 1 channel + boost  ( 3 X 12AX7, 2 X EL84 ) / 1x12" speaker Transistor rectifier (what does it mean ??) / Reverb
Pros: Might be a good amp / in the budget
Cons: Might not be a good amp !  I don't know anything about this one but I read some bad reviews of its sounds when pushed and I'm a little bit afraid of the Transistor thing but I don't know so I listed it.

LANEY VC15 110 (366)
15W Class A/B" 1x10" speaker /FX Loop / Reverb
Pros: It seems it the same specs as the Vox AC's (?) ... I don't say no to an FX Loop & a Reverb..
Cons: ?? tell me..

PEAVEY DELTA BLUES (690) 
30W / 2 channel  3x12AX7 / 4xEL84  / 1x15" speaker / FX Loop / Reverb
Pros: I Read good reviews about it / I can find it 2nd hand easily so cheaper..  2 channel are better than 1 ... as long as they don't divide the sound quality in 2..
Cons: Might be too loud for me

PEAVEY CLASSIC 30 (590) 
30W 2 channel  3x12AX7 / 4xEL84  1x12" speaker / FX Loop / Reverb
Pros: ?? Might be good.. Give Peavey a chance ! (John Lennon would be with me on this one.. )  + 2 channel are better than 1 ... as long as they don't divide the sound quality in 2..
Cons: Might be too loud for me.

VOX AC15CC1 (589 Euros):
15 Watts RMS / 2 x EL84 et 2 x ECC83./ Reverb
Pros:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9cbIiamYtg Do I need to say anything else: Imagine this guy is playing with a JM or P90 (more fat and a little bit more crunchy sound ) and it nails the sound I like ! (especially when he plays the intro of the wind cries mary at the end)
Cons: Seems hard to use with an attenuator... but still possible.
Loud it seems but I don't know how loud it will be in order to get the sound in the video.. I don't need it louder than that since I'll use the Super Duper for more crunch.
On the other side, maybe I don't need to raise the Master Volume at home everyday... I can do it only when I'm recording.. ?

VOX AC15CC1X (891 Euros)
12" Celestion AlNiCo Blue loudspeaker / 15 Watts RMS / 2 x EL84 et 2 x ECC83./ Reverb
Pros: the Speaker.
Cons: Is it justified to pay 300 Euros for a speaker ?? It's always possible to change it after right ?


VOX AC15H1TV (1139 Euros)
15-watt / 1 x EF86, 3 x ECC83/12AX7, 2 x EL84, and 1 x EZ81 (rectifier) / 1x12" speaker (celestion alnico blue)
Flexible power
(The O/P Switch adds even more flexibility to the AC15. This switch changes the power output valves from Pentode Mode, which is the normal operating mode of the power amplifier, to Triode Mode which halves the power output to 7.5 watts and will alter the tone to be somewhat smoother.)
Do I understand well ? a power attenuator ?

Pros: Honestly, I don't understand all the features. but It seems really flexible
Cons: Really expensive for me !

ORANGE TINY TERROR (485)
15 Watts 'Class A' / 7 Watts 'Class A' / 2 x 12AX7 + 2 x EL84 (Gain / Tone / Volume)
ORANGE CABINET PPC112 (291)
1x12" Speaker, 100 Watt, 16 Ohm,
Pros: the switchable power. I liked what I heard so far (you tube + sound clips) / fine tuning the sound by choosing the right cab.
Cons: features are reduced to a minimum.. maybe a good or bad thing. Good if I like the sound... The good news is that I guess I can find one to try.


MATAMP MINIMAT (378)
2/4 watts / = ECC83 + 6V6 or EL34 / Power attenuator / Lo & Hi input + booster / line out
Pros: I like the sound clips I heard, flexible, great features: attenuator/ line out
Cons: Will not do it in a band coonfiguration.. But If I buy a minimat, I'll buy a speaker.. and when the time will come to play in a band, I'll probably before to buy a Head and use it with the cab.

MATAMP first lady (872)
7 watts / = ECC83 + 6V6 or EL34 / Power attenuator /Attack + voice control (Unique Attack control simultaneously changes the tone and gain of the power tube and changes the way the speaker reacts) / line out
Available in combo version with 1x12" (1013) I'm not sure of the price since they can do it according to buyers needs
The Matamps have EL34s but I heard sound clips of them with EL84 so it might be possible to have thos tubes I guess...
Those clips gave me a confirmation it's the EL84 that I like. (Clips were also recorded with 6V6). I really like the spank with Juicyness of EL84 !  (there is at least one thing that is for sure in all this mess !  )

Pros: Power attenuator
Cons: no line out but  It's possible to ask for custom features.

As you can see, it still goes in lots of direction concerning the Pros & Cons..
The thing is I begun to realize how expensive it will be to buy the amp + Attenuator w.line out + Speaker emulator (i forgot about this !) and this for a result that may not be satisfaying so I'm in the process to list all the configurations available and to compare their advantages and costs.
I have only had time so far for beginning to think about that so I can't list those configurations now...

So in the meantime, i'll be happy to read your comments about the amps I just listed...if you owned one, maybe you'll be able to tell me if I will like the sound

[Jarvis]

I play a Blues Junior, and many say a speaker upgrade will get rid of the "boxy" tone it may have. Also, it doesn't sound much like a Vox, honestly. The same power tubes aren't going to make two amps sound alike. I think you're best off with a smallish EL84 combo and an attenuator. If you get a 15 watter or below (like the Vox, Blues Junior, Orange, etc.) you can use a Weber Micromass (https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/micromass.htm).

[FireAarro]

Try out the Laney, some people say it sounds pretty voxy.

[k o y l]

I play a Blues Junior, and many say a speaker upgrade will get rid of the "boxy" tone it may have. Also, it doesn't sound much like a Vox, honestly. The same power tubes aren't going to make two amps sound alike. I think you're best off with a smallish EL84 combo and an attenuator. If you get a 15 watter or below (like the Vox, Blues Junior, Orange, etc.) you can use a Weber Micromass (https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/micromass.htm).

Thanks a lot ! I didn't know this one: It's not expensive and the possibility of pluging a 4, 8 or 16 Ohm cab behing it is nice.

I'm not even limited to a 15W amp thanks to this one --> https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/minimass.htm 

Talking about the vox sound: I checked my settings in the Pod and I'm quite far from the stock vox settings actually:
These are the setting I use:
Clean sound : Vox AC30 + original AC30 cab --> Drive: 5 / Bass: 4 / Medium: 6 / Treble: 10 / Presence: 8
Breakup Sound: Vox AC30 + original AC30 cab --> Drive: 8.5 / Bass: 3.6 / Medium: 7 / Treble: 10 / Presence: 8

I'm beginning to wonder if a Vox will be able to get close to those tones.. (no Presence on a vox..).. I guess I could use an EQ pedal if needed.

No one on the Peavey's ??  I saw some videos on YouTube and they seem to sound good...

And yes, I will definitely check out the Laney: same specs as the Vox and it's cheap !

[echobaseone]

KOYL,
I hope this doesn't confuse you any further...but having an essentially custom made handwired amp by a true gentleman for a price much cheaper than most PCB based factory made amps is to me, a no-brainer.
http://www.frenzeltubeamps.com/id54.html
I bought his 5e3 Deluxe Plus with a couple of extra options (Line out/Speaker Ohm Selector) and I really couldn't be happier. You can build your own cabinet for it pretty easily. The only downside is that it will probably take 6 weeks to build. But it would be built for you!
Good luck.

[k o y l]

No, no, it's not confusing at all.
Thanks a lot for this: It seems to be THE amp for me ! 
I was really decided to buy an AC15CC after seeing the Mezcalhead video w. the Super Duper (thanks again !  ) but this one push things to a new level: I like the fact that it's a point to point wired rather than a PCB board and the line out feature is definitely a plus for me.


I think I'll take it with all the upgrade available:
-Effect loop: Since it's a 2 channel amp, it makes the use of delay and reverb a little bit tricky without the FX Loop...
-Worldwide Power Transformer: to be able to plug it of course ! (220V here)
-Classic Hammond Hi-Fi Output Transformer: Mainly to no being stucked to only one cab type.
-Steel Cage: A question about this just to be sure I understood things right: It says it's a Classic perforated steel cage to protect the tubes: It means I'll get something like this, right ?:

Speaking of the shape not the look ...

I didn't asked about shipping costs yet but without them (including the 45$ of Handling fees though), the total is 680$ or 502 Euros (less than the Vox AC15CC !!).
+ 25%= 125 Euros of Import taxes ( ): it makes 627 Euros. Not too expensive if the shipping costs are not too high.

The shipping costs and the fact I manage to sell my pod will decide if  I order it now or not. Other thing to consider is I won't be able to buy any effect pedal for quite a long time if I buy the amp now...

I'll still have to buy or make a cab... I don't know much about them... anyone know about what kind of speaking are requested to get a Vox sound, I'm kind of walking blind in this domain... 
I found this cab:
It's cheap, I heard good things about them and it have Celestion vintage 30 speakers.. really good speakers it seems but I don't know if they can help getting close to the Vox sound, they might even ruin it..  :-\

btw I got some news: as you probably already understood, I decided to get rid of my Pod XT Live but I'll replace it with a Vox tonelab, the cheaper tabletop version: I found it new at half the price (!) and it will be fit me better than the pod: It's smaller, simpler and it had buttons you can tweak in real time.
And those all in one things might be very convenient if I have to take the train to go to a rehearsal in Paris as it happened to me this year..

[echobaseone]

http://www.frenzeltubeamps.com/imagelib ... E%20OPTION

That's a link to the cage. I ended up converting a Valve Jr. shell for mine, it fit pretty close, plus it's definitely unlike anyone else's! I'll try to send a photo tonight.

[echobaseone]

Full Frontal:

[echobaseone]

comparitive:

Valve Jr's are pretty cheap in the US, around $100 dollars or so. It makes a really good recording amp as well, so it could be a cheaper option than the steel cage, plus you would also have a 5 Watt amp to mess around with...I got the empty shell from a guy who made a fancy wooden enclosure for his. They sometimes come up on Ebay though.